Prog Song Structure

I both like the simple 4/4 tempos in a prog rock song (yes, 4/4 can be prog too) and the much more elaborate song structures and tempos.

A great example of relatively simple structures is Psychotic Waltz's "Bleeding", their most mature release IMO. Mostly 4/4 tempos with some twists and turns and some songs including a structure of verse/refrain/verse x 2/refrain, which I found a nice twist.

Generally speaking the way more conventional structures within prog songs are used could make a big difference to my appreciation of the song/artist/album.

Dean wrote: This is not a competition.  I'm sure there were some bands in many parts of the world that were making a noise that sounded like a hybrid of heavy metal and punk around the mid 80s, but unless those bands were in Seattle around 1987 when the term Grunge was first applied to that specific style of music then it wasn't Grunge.

Right, which was my point about rock--  Iggy and his Stooges were doing a sort of hard Garage rock, with the probability that English musicians were being influenced by that sound (an attempt to expand on Blues music).   But really what they were doing was simply rock 'n roll; a raw and primitive kind, but pure American rock 'n roll.   Not unlike the Beatles very early gigs in Germany and England.   We're talking loud, heavy stuff played with abandon.   That's what rock was to many young people because it was fun and you could play it, unlike jazz, Pop Vocal, or classical.

But that would be a bit like saying Larks or Red is too heavy/aggressive to be prog. Velvet Underground is just one of Can's influences.  They were also interested in the work of composers like Steve Reich.  I also don't necessarily see nihilism as incompatible with prog, far from it.  

moshkito wrote:  I was referring to a blanket statement someone made that accused the general posting population here of ethnocentrism and imperialism regarding the progressive rock timeline, while all along ignoring the historical facts in the matter. Sorry if you felt like collateral damage.     Again, we should re-read the line ... it basically says that no one in Africa was good enough to play a Fender,   or that no one in Argentina ever played a Ludwig set, or anyone in Australia ever saw a Teac!

moshkito wrote:  I was referring to a blanket statement someone made that accused the general posting population here of ethnocentrism and imperialism regarding the progressive rock timeline, while all along ignoring the historical facts in the matter. Sorry if you felt like collateral damage.     Again, we should re-read the line ... it basically says that no one in Africa was good enough to play a Fender,   or that no one in Argentina ever played a Ludwig set, or anyone in Australia ever saw a Teac! And in the old days in England they used to call the Africans and the Hindu's "savages"!   Maybe we need to have a few folks take a look at Eurock's old listings of musicians from around the world. And reconsider who is being close minded here and showing their xenophobic ethnocentrism in their comments a lot more than I who has lived in 3 continents!

Is xenophobic ethnocentrism a kind of Spinal Tap turn it up to 11 version 0f ethnocentrism?

Some of my views on the original question: Structure in music is only a means to facilitate a musician's vision, as structure in a building is only a means to facilitate an architects vision. There are many practical considerations that if not accounted for, will not result in a successful realization or even a useful end product. If the vision is radical, new techniques must be invented, if not, old techniques can be used in new ways. History is filled with stories of those whose visions exceeded conventions. The new, the avant-garde, is, like everything else, built upon that which came before. Even a rejection of a style or structure is influenced by that style or structure. New does not always mean better. Neither does old. There are many ways to progress, and there are many ways to innovate.   

The episodic nature of long songs like Supper's ready don't appeal to me when the tracks are so long. I can take Can-utility and the Coastliners episodic nature but a 20-minute incoherent Frankenstein song is too much. Maybe my classically-grown mind is guilty for that. 

The T wrote: The episodic nature of long songs like Supper's ready don't appeal to me when the tracks are so long. I can take Can-utility and the Coastliners episodic nature but a 20-minute incoherent Frankenstein song is too much. Maybe my classically-grown mind is guilty for that.

IMO this is a great example of a well structured and yet modern, contemporary progressive rock epic; the song entitled Parallel Timeline is released just three days ago by the German prog rock trio (the members are from Dortmund, Cologne and Munich) ELIZABETH THE LAST ; this band did do two great singles (both epic) and, perhaps apart from the band's name, their music has nothing to do with the British progressive rock movement (scene) in late 60s/early 70s: 

Edited by Svetonio - April 08 2014 at 00:22

The Dark Elf wrote: ... But it is not a matter of "xenophobic ethnocentrism", it is you who are incapable of looking past your obvious anti-American/anti-British (yes, "British" has only one damn 't') biases and prejudices and giving credit where credit is due.