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Svetonio 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010
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 Posted: June 25 2014 at 07:30 |
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Svetonio
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Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
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Points: 10213
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Posted: June 25 2014 at 07:50 |
My list of Big 5 post-modern era prog bands is: Dream Theater, The Flower Kings, Ozric Tentacles, Porcupine Tree and Tool.
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HackettFan
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Joined: June 20 2012
Location: Oklahoma
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Points: 7946
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Posted: June 25 2014 at 09:13 |
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If we're stuck on five, which I don't get why it needs to be five, we should replace Floyd with Tull, otherwise just add Tull. If we add Rush, then I would definitely add Zappa. I haven't warmed yet to any modern band except Anglagard, but I don't what their degree of success is or how they might've pioneered anything new or influenced anyone in the genre. I don't care that much for the modest amount of Dream Theater or Spock's Beard that I've heard. I haven't explored Porcupine Tree yet. So on and so forth. I'm not sure there's any good suggestion for the top (5?) echelon. It's at least conceivable that a modern group could be added. I can't envision a modern band replacing any one of them.
Edited by HackettFan - June 25 2014 at 09:14
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musitron
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Joined: March 10 2014
Location: Gatineau Canada
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Points: 142
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Posted: June 25 2014 at 09:36 |
The Big 5 is there to stay. But a Big 5 out of 70s would be interresting Porcupine Tree and Opeth would be there for sure.
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“One good thing about music, when it hits you, you feel no pain.”
Dark Side Radio - Best new Prog 2015 mixed with good old stuff. - www.live365.com/stations/young_gun
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dave-the-rave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2006
Location: NY metro area
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Points: 276
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Posted: June 25 2014 at 10:05 |
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What about Focus?
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JCDenton
Forum Groupie
Joined: June 17 2013
Location: Yes
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Points: 54
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Posted: June 25 2014 at 11:01 |
Of all the groups here, no one has debated Yes or Genesis, so it's fair (or at least safe) to say those are absolutes. When it comes to King Crimson, Floyd, Tull, ELP, and Rush, the others in discussion for this "Big 5", commercial success as a basis for an argument just doesn't sit well with me. The reason these groups are regarded so highly is because of their influence in the big heyday of Progressive music. King Crimson is THE influence in Prog. Not too much debate possible on that. That's where half the bands mentioned above started, and too much of early Crimson defined how the genre would look even today. Crimson is widely regarded as the most important and influential and best prog band. I'm not fanboying; it's just hard to see why anyone would think they don't belong in the Big 5.
As for the others, it's easier to dismiss Rush because of them being the prominent later 70's band, while what we're looking at is the biggest innovators and successes of the early groups in what's hailed as our "classic era".
As for the other two slots, Floyd is the other big influence I see. Them not fitting the mold of the other groups does not matter. Psychedelic/Space Rock is still a big role (even next to big brother Symphonic Prog) in much of Prog with Floyd being the godfather to nearly all under that umbrella. Floyd is a giant in Progressive music!
As for Tull and ELP, that's tough. The first four are so clear to me. Maybe there is a need for a Big 6 or even 7. Breaking down these two bands, they honestly are both very deserving.
Tull: -biggest thing to me is Thick as a Brick. Making the textbook definition (and defining the standard) of the concept album -also being a big component in the inception of the stereotype of flutes in Prog
ELP: -technical perfection -keyboard masturbation
Hmmm…. Really tough.. Ah, who am I kidding. Keyboard masturbation (and being obnoxious) always wins.
Big 5: King Crimson Yes Genesis Pink Floyd ELP
Edited by JCDenton - June 25 2014 at 11:03
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"We have grown, but there is still much to be done. Many that live in darkness that must be shown the way, for it is the dawning of a new day."
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: January 22 2009
Location: Magic Theatre
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Points: 23098
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Posted: June 25 2014 at 11:10 |
 Icarium wrote:
Guldbamsen wrote:
The list will never be complete without Amon Düül ll. The bible says so. |
Amon Düül II is so effifing good it will forever influenced my way of composing metal doom songs, as have Ash Ra Temple |
Also, their debut album translates into 'God's Penis'. It is obviously written.
Anyway the big 5 will always be:
even if I myself would interchange the rhino with either a squid or a swordfish.
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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Polymorphia
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Joined: November 06 2012
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Posted: June 25 2014 at 11:39 |
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I would think that post-00s Squire and post-00s Vander would at least be considered for the Big Five.
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akamaisondufromage
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Posted: June 25 2014 at 11:43 |
Guldbamsen wrote:
Icarium wrote:
Guldbamsen wrote:
The list will never be complete without Amon Düül ll. The bible says so. |
Amon Düül II is so effifing good it will forever influenced my way of composing metal doom songs, as have Ash Ra Temple |
Also, their debut album translates into 'God's Penis'. It is obviously written.
Anyway the big 5 will always be:
even if I myself would interchange the rhino with either a squid or a swordfish. |
Surely the buffalo bison type thing would be the one to go and the Whale must be in the BIG Five (or the BIG ONE).
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Help me I'm falling!
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator
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Joined: January 22 2009
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Posted: June 25 2014 at 11:46 |
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Yeah but whales were never original. They merely copied fish with lungs, which makes them post lung fish.....and we're talking about influence and importance to the genre of the big 5.
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
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Points: 5093
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Posted: June 25 2014 at 14:56 |
richardh wrote:
ELP made some poor decisions after 1974 there is no doubt but at least they didn't just repeat themselves and they do have a couple of later albums in their catalog that are highly regarded ( ELPowell and Black Moon). I don't think this matters too much though as the era of innovation in prog was 1970-1974 after which many prog bands either just repeated themselves or took a more commercial stance with rare exceptions such as King Crimson (but not Tull I suspect)
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ELP despite their limited masterpiece-status output were unique in so many ways that IMHO they undoubtedly deserve their place in the top-5. Emerson was among the very first (if not the very first) to take a modular Moog to a live gig (albeit that was still with The Nice), his work on the Hammond with heavy use of the percussive effect was also very innovative at his time, when everybody else was using it as a standard organ with sustained sounds, he was also the first to use a poly-synth in a studio album (the Apollo prototype of the Polymoog in Brain Salad Surgery, if we exclude the TONTO mega-synth ensemble) and he made also an important sound change in prog with the use of the Korgs and the Yamaha GX-1 in the Works period. They also quite revolutionised the genre by doing Prog with nearly no electric guitars (OK, again The Nice had been a precedent). Palmer was also a very innovative drummer with his personal percussive style compared to the dominant rhythmic style of drumming. Their adaptations of classical compositions also made a school. So no doubt for me, like them or not, ELP rightly belong to the top-5.
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SteveG
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Posted: June 25 2014 at 15:22 |
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I'm surprised to see that people (aside from JCDenton) make so little of King Crimson. I cannot imagine modern Prog let alone ELP, Yes and '70s era Floyd sounding the same without them.
Edited by SteveG - June 25 2014 at 15:33
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silverpot
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Posted: June 25 2014 at 16:05 |
Guldbamsen wrote:
Yeah but whales were never original. They merely copied fish with lungs, which makes them post lung fish.....and we're talking about influence and importance to the genre of the big 5. |
Sorry, but whales originates from land living animals. They're more like cows taking to the water. Nothing to do with fish what so ever,  I also think you got one of the cats wrong. The tiger is the biggest of the species, so I guess you'll have to take the jaguar out. Anyway, both ELP and Floyd belong in the high five just because they were among the first and most successful.
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Horizons
Collaborator
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Joined: January 20 2011
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Points: 16952
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Posted: June 25 2014 at 16:06 |
Guldbamsen wrote:
Yeah but whales were never original. They merely copied fish with lungs, which makes them post lung fish.....and we're talking about influence and importance to the genre of the big 5. |
But i like my whales to be copies
;[
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
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Points: 10052
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Posted: June 25 2014 at 16:50 |
Aside from Pink Floyd, King Crimson is obviously most important of the "big five". Their no. 1 charting debut made such a huge impact that they literally created progressive rock as a genre and introduced the sound that shaped the music of ELP, Yes, Genesis and just about everyone else. ELP is the most doubtsome as their relevance is fading year by year (while the impact of Gabriel-era Genesis has been steadily growing) because unlike King Crimson, the younger generations don't seem to connect with their music.
As with writers and painters all artists/art considered the most important changes in retrospect. Its no coincidence ELP's debut is their only album in PA top 100 while 70's cultbands such as Van Der Graaf Generator and Gentle Giant now have four entries each (and KC has three in top 20).
Album sales aren't irrelevant but its doesn't really matter who had the highest charting albums (or how much they sold) back in the day. Thousands of bands sold more than Velvet Underground in the late 60's but you can't argue against their importance because of that.
My big five would have to be about who has seemingly inspired the most bands/had the biggest impact and kept relevant through the decades.
King Crimson, Genesis, Pink Floyd, Frank Zappa & Can or Magma perhaps.
http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2011/08/record-sales-the-velvet-underground-vs-emerson-lake-palmer.html |
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
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Points: 13260
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Posted: June 25 2014 at 16:51 |
SteveG wrote:
I'm surprised to see that people (aside from JCDenton) make so little of King Crimson. I cannot imagine modern Prog let alone ELP, Yes and '70s era Floyd sounding the same without them. |
I would never make so little of Crimson. I love them. But I will take issue a little big with your analysis.
Yes were contemporaries of Crimson. There the comparison rather ended. Don't forget the celebrated story about Briford being invited to join KC by Fripp....."I believe you are ready to join King Crimson now"....Fripp was clearly implying that Crimson were a more advanced, mature, clever outfit than Yes.
Aside from the presence of Greg Lake, I see no other connection or influence between Crimson and ELP, sorry.
As for Floyd, you are a little nearer the mark, if, of course, you presuppose that much of Meddle and DSOTM were mere copies of parts of In The Court and In The Wake. I personally don't, but the influence was clearly present.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
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Progosopher
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 12 2009
Location: Coolwood
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Posted: June 25 2014 at 16:55 |
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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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SteveG
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Joined: April 11 2014
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Posted: June 25 2014 at 17:20 |
lazland wrote:
SteveG wrote:
I'm surprised to see that people (aside from JCDenton) make so little of King Crimson. I cannot imagine modern Prog let alone ELP, Yes and '70s era Floyd sounding the same without them. |
I would never make so little of Crimson. I love them. But I will take issue a little big with your analysis.
Yes were contemporaries of Crimson. There the comparison rather ended. Don't forget the celebrated story about Briford being invited to join KC by Fripp....."I believe you are ready to join King Crimson now"....Fripp was clearly implying that Crimson were a more advanced, mature, clever outfit than Yes.
Aside from the presence of Greg Lake, I see no other connection or influence between Crimson and ELP, sorry.
As for Floyd, you are a little nearer the mark, if, of course, you presuppose that much of Meddle and DSOTM were mere copies of parts of In The Court and In The Wake. I personally don't, but the influence was clearly present. |
Perhaps I should have said that I could not imagine them sounding exactly the same without KC. I feel that Lake was extremely influenced by KC when he composed Lucky Man, the song that brought them radio exposure to the world, and that KC's classical suite like song structures influenced Yes to a degree. The rest was all down to their own genius. Cheers Laz.
Edited by SteveG - June 25 2014 at 17:35
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silverpot
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: March 19 2008
Location: Sweden
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Posted: June 25 2014 at 18:06 |
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silverpot
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: March 19 2008
Location: Sweden
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Posted: June 25 2014 at 18:13 |
SteveG wrote:
lazland wrote:
SteveG wrote:
I'm surprised to see that people (aside from JCDenton) make so little of King Crimson. I cannot imagine modern Prog let alone ELP, Yes and '70s era Floyd sounding the same without them. |
I would never make so little of Crimson. I love them. But I will take issue a little big with your analysis.
Yes were contemporaries of Crimson. There the comparison rather ended. Don't forget the celebrated story about Briford being invited to join KC by Fripp....."I believe you are ready to join King Crimson now"....Fripp was clearly implying that Crimson were a more advanced, mature, clever outfit than Yes.
Aside from the presence of Greg Lake, I see no other connection or influence between Crimson and ELP, sorry.
As for Floyd, you are a little nearer the mark, if, of course, you presuppose that much of Meddle and DSOTM were mere copies of parts of In The Court and In The Wake. I personally don't, but the influence was clearly present. |
Perhaps I should have said that I could not imagine them sounding exactly the same without KC. I feel that Lake was extremely influenced by KC when he composed Lucky Man, the song that brought them radio exposure to the world, and that KC's classical suite like song structures influenced Yes to a degree. The rest was all down to their own genius. Cheers Laz.
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According to legend, Lake composed Lucky Man in his early teens. He's also responsible for the riff of Schizoid Man. Hard to say who influenced whom.
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
BIG FIVE
Prog is considerably more bountiful that just 5 'biggie' bands so why not just celebrate the scores of fantastic bands that adorn our site whether they be from the early 70's or otherwise? 
