Was early 80's King Crimson really Prog?

Svetonio wrote: ExittheLemming wrote: Svetonio wrote: rogerthat wrote: It is not an attack on KC to merely suggest that 80s KC was perhaps more progressive than prog. As far I remember, *prog* in 1980 widely was still only an acronym for *progressive rock*. The term 'prog' is really starting to emerge in the early nineties with the prog metal i.e. that was when one metaller asks other metaller "hey what are you listening now?", and he / she responds "I listen now to prog mostly" - of course thinking about prog metal i.e. Dream Theater and the likes, not about some symphonic prog stuff from late 60 / early 70 lol. ^ Prog was the eggy fart released in the crowded elevator circa 1980 and you damn well know it fine. Just like crushed velvet strides and patchouli oil, certain practices are relegated to the peripheries when it comes to the selective revisionism necessitated by shopping for say,  flares when they ain't available. You have started a hell of a lot of threads recently (which is not necessarily a bad thing, so this is not a rebuke) but I like to think we BOTH intuit that what might pass for Prog in 2014 is a nostalgia for something that never happened in the first place by those who weren't even around to countenance such verisimilitude. You can belong to prog-nostalgic crowd, if you want to, and to claim that the progressive rock ceased in 1980. Nobody needs to challenge your opinion. But, from your side, you wouldn't to dispute other fans who are prog-futurists and who believes in the future of our beloved genre.

I'm neither a nostalgic or sentimental person Svetonio. It's the retro proggers Transatlantic, Taproban, Wobbler, Areknames, Black Bonzo, (some recent) Steven Wilson et al who I am referring to. That's not to say the foregoing haven't made any fine music (as I enjoy most of them) but as the song says: tell me who doesn't love what can never come back? As for what is considered modern Prog, this will always be accompanied by a glance in the rear view mirror for musicians reverse engineering its future.

^Greetings R&RCola and welcome to the party. Strap yourself in for the ride. It's a blast, Daddy-o!

Svetonio wrote: ExittheLemming wrote: Svetonio wrote: rogerthat wrote: It is not an attack on KC to merely suggest that 80s KC was perhaps more progressive than prog. As far I remember, *prog* in 1980 widely was still only an acronym for *progressive rock*. The term 'prog' is really starting to emerge in the early nineties with the prog metal i.e. that was when one metaller asks other metaller "hey what are you listening now?", and he / she responds "I listen now to prog mostly" - of course thinking about prog metal i.e. Dream Theater and the likes, not about some symphonic prog stuff from late 60 / early 70 lol. ^ Prog was the eggy fart released in the crowded elevator circa 1980 and you damn well know it fine. Just like crushed velvet strides and patchouli oil, certain practices are relegated to the peripheries when it comes to the selective revisionism necessitated by shopping for say,  flares when they ain't available. You have started a hell of a lot of threads recently (which is not necessarily a bad thing, so this is not a rebuke) but I like to think we BOTH intuit that what might pass for Prog in 2014 is a nostalgia for something that never happened in the first place by those who weren't even around to countenance such verisimilitude. You can belong to prog-nostalgic crowd, if you want to, and to claim that the progressive rock ceased in 1980. Nobody needs to challenge your opinion. But, from your side, you wouldn't to dispute other fans who are prog-futurists and who believes in the future of our beloved genre.

ExittheLemming wrote: Svetonio wrote: rogerthat wrote: It is not an attack on KC to merely suggest that 80s KC was perhaps more progressive than prog. As far I remember, *prog* in 1980 widely was still only an acronym for *progressive rock*. The term 'prog' is really starting to emerge in the early nineties with the prog metal i.e. that was when one metaller asks other metaller "hey what are you listening now?", and he / she responds "I listen now to prog mostly" - of course thinking about prog metal i.e. Dream Theater and the likes, not about some symphonic prog stuff from late 60 / early 70 lol. ^ Prog was the eggy fart released in the crowded elevator circa 1980 and you damn well know it fine. Just like crushed velvet strides and patchouli oil, certain practices are relegated to the peripheries when it comes to the selective revisionism necessitated by shopping for say,  flares when they ain't available. You have started a hell of a lot of threads recently (which is not necessarily a bad thing, so this is not a rebuke) but I like to think we BOTH intuit that what might pass for Prog in 2014 is a nostalgia for something that never happened in the first place by those who weren't even around to countenance such verisimilitude.

You can belong to prog-nostalgic crowd, if you want to, and to claim that the progressive rock ceased in 1980. Nobody needs to challenge your opinion.
But, from your side, you wouldn't to dispute other fans who are prog-futurists and who believes in the future of our beloved genre.

Edited by Svetonio - August 06 2014 at 13:58

SteveG wrote: Svetonio wrote: ^ Robert Fripp was skillfully worked at his own new style of progressive rock which was heavily inspired by post-punk / new wave aesthetics, but that wasn't turned *progressive rock* into * prog *. Even trance contributed to the emancipation of the term * prog * as something separate from the progressive rock than Mr Fripp and Discipline the album. I  believe your making the prog vs. Progressive Rock destinction, which I do not. To me it's a way of contradicting the terms to suit a purpose.

Robert Fripp was skillfully worked at his own new style of progressive rock which was heavily inspired by post-punk / new wave aesthetics, but that wasn't turned *progressive* into * prog * or vice versa. It was still to be progressive rock without a question. Even more, Discipline, Beat and Three of the Perfect Pair the albums were saved the progressive rock because that trilogy brought that fresh air in our beloved genre.

Btw, that (prog)trance contributed to the emancipation of the term * prog * as something separate from the progressive rock but it wasn't Mr Fripp and Discipline the album.







Edited by Svetonio - August 06 2014 at 13:35

Svetonio wrote: rogerthat wrote: It is not an attack on KC to merely suggest that 80s KC was perhaps more progressive than prog. As far I remember, *prog* in 1980 widely was still only an acronym for *progressive rock*. The term 'prog' is really starting to emerge in the early nineties with the prog metal i.e. that was when one metaller asks other metaller "hey what are you listening now?", and he / she responds "I listen now to prog mostly" - of course thinking about prog metal i.e. Dream Theater and the likes, not about some symphonic prog stuff from late 60 / early 70 lol.

^ Prog was the eggy fart released in the crowded elevator circa 1980 and you damn well know it fine. Just like crushed velvet strides and patchouli oil, certain practices are relegated to the peripheries when it comes to the selective revisionism necessitated by shopping for say,  flares when they ain't available. You have started a hell of a lot of threads recently (which is not necessarily a bad thing, so this is not a rebuke) but I like to think we BOTH intuit that what might pass for Prog in 2014 is a nostalgia for something that never happened in the first place by those who weren't even around to countenance such verisimilitude.

O666 wrote: No.As I said before " My English isnt good" and I never want to fight or combat steveG. I only try to talked about music and my opinion. I dont know you and this isnt personal. Perhaps we have too many common opinions but I dont know why you attack to opposite opinions by accusing? And I dont understand your anger.

I believe our disagreement is due to poor communication only, so please accept my apology.


Edited by SteveG - August 06 2014 at 10:02

No.As I said before " My English isnt good" and I never want to fight or combat steveG. I only try to talked about music and my opinion. I dont know you and this isnt personal. Perhaps we have too many common opinions but I dont know why you attack to opposite opinions by accusing? And I dont understand your anger. 

O666 wrote: SteveG wrote: O666 wrote: Some guys attacking KC and I dont know why. What is their problem?  You never change opinions with this kind of posts and Questions. Why they using Questions? I think they afraid to show their opinions CLEARLY and use these kind of questions.  Perhaps you should read the other posts as I have a much higher opinion of eighties era  KC than before I posted 'this kind of post and Questions'. Opinions  about music are always welcomed, at least by me, as we sometimes blind ourselves to what we hear due to prejudice, poor timing, crummy stereo equipment at past times, the listeners initial state of mind, 'musicians ego' and so on. The important thing is to a have an open mind and respect for the  people giving the responses. Obviously, we will not agree on everything. However, if twentyfive members feel one way about an album or artist and you feel completely another way, than that's a clue that perhaps you are missing something. This is your normal answer and I guess that and ready for this!! You accuse others to proof your opinion. I read your posts and I know your opinion. Be honest dude! I "JUST" talked about my opinion. You accuse me easily :  1- Perhaps you should read the other posts as I have a much higher opinion of eighties era  KC than before I posted 2 - as we sometimes blind ourselves to what we hear due to prejudice, poor timing, crummy stereo equipment at past times 3 - The important thing is to a have an open mind and respect for the  people giving the responses 4 - that's a clue that perhaps you are missing something WOW. I know guys like you. Please be polite and honest.

Ok, please read  the other posts, etc,etc,etc, and my post was honest. If you are not use to honesty then you will certianly be thrown by an honest answer, which I think is your problem. Perhaps you should contemplate  that statment for awhile and stop being so defensive and combative. It's only music we are talking about here, or did you forget?


Edited by SteveG - August 06 2014 at 09:45