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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 16268
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Posted: August 24 2014 at 13:10 |
Hi,
I do not think that The Beatles were that much more important in "music", than anything else out there. For the time span, and specially in the 50's, film, literature and a lot of art, got around. But what The Beatles, and they are not the only ones, did the most, was help break the control of the arts by an upper class crust ... that still thought that "popular music" (or popular anything!) was not a valid artistic concept or idea.
What they brought about ... go look at the two worst business decisions EVER done, on the Internet! Thus, what The Beatles, The Rolling Stones and othes brought about was that there was a business in the "popular arts" that were not quite considered before. Their becoming famous helped bring out so much media about the popular music, that 10 years later, the previously important arts were not even selling 1/5th the amount of the stuff out there, and today, classical music is less than 1/10th of the music bought and sold out there, not to mention that you will never find a Lollapaloosa of Classical music anywhere either!
For your question, I think, the time, the place, the politics, and the arts, were way more important than any of the bands that we can think of. To say that Genesis or Pink Floyd were important, is like saying that you never saw "Tonite We All Love in London" and realize all the movie folks, literature folks, art folks and everyone else being around, getting to know each other and in many ways sharing ideas and fun along the way. That is far more important to Genesis, than the Beatles were! Why? Because it validates the time, the place, and the work you want to do.
Robin Williamson has said that in many ways the psychedelic thing, or anything else was a media creation, because there are many folks in that midst that are true artists, and they will do what they do, and not care what else is going on. That means that the individualistic personality, is important to make something come alive, and I believe, trully, that this was the secret behind "progressive", and not anything else. Yes, no one can ignore The Beatles, or any other music at the time, but that like saying that you, or I, can not have opinions, because we were all born later, or worse ... not a part of the click ... how cliche and boring that is, PA! Don't you agree?
Edited by moshkito - August 24 2014 at 13:12
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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PrognosticMind
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 02 2014
Location: New Hampshire
Status: Offline
Points: 1195
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Posted: August 24 2014 at 11:54 |
twosteves wrote:
Genital Giant wrote:
Genesis. I don't think any Prog band has had as much influence over other Prog bands all the way to present as Genesis. In the 1970's, King Crimson was clearly the big inspirer for the other Proggers, but from the 1980's on, Genesis' influence has been vast. |
This--plus they are the only real prog band that consistently crafted good hit short pop songs like the Beatles. |
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"A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous. Got me?"
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: August 24 2014 at 11:14 |
Of course those bands had an influence on prog, no doubt. That is my whole argument. All I am saying is the one album that shaped prog as a structured long form rock music, which is what most prog albums slot into, was ITCOTCK. Days of Future Passed was far more modest that way than ITCOTCK while Piper/Saucerful was more unstructured, more oriented towards experimentation.
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20491
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Posted: August 24 2014 at 10:09 |
rogerthat wrote:
chopper wrote:
Scoppioingola wrote:
The Beatles of prog are The Beatles. |
That's all I can think of. There isn't really one band who have had the same impact in prog, except a few instances such as the first King Crimson album, The Yes Album, Foxtrot and a few others |
I don't really go along with this completely. While there's no doubt about the impact Beatles had on rock, in terms of shaping the genre in its early days, they were hardly the only band or artist of great significance. Rolling Stones were probably more important from the point of view of popularising rock as a kind of driving, angry music which Beatles seldom were in the pre-Rubber Soul days. Bob Dylan popularised the idea of rock as a vehicle to register protest or at least weigh in on issues of social significance. In terms of the one big bang event that shaped prog in its archetypal 70s form, it would have to be King Crimson and their ITCOTCK album. |
That works for me for the most part but I think the Moody Blues with their use of the mellotron sound certainly influenced many also as well as their 'themed album' style. And Floyd must have had a solid influence on many bands also.
Edited by dr wu23 - August 24 2014 at 10:13
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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twosteves
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 01 2007
Location: NYC/Rhinebeck
Status: Offline
Points: 4071
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Posted: August 24 2014 at 09:17 |
Genital Giant wrote:
Genesis. I don't think any Prog band has had as much influence over other Prog bands all the way to present as Genesis. In the 1970's, King Crimson was clearly the big inspirer for the other Proggers, but from the 1980's on, Genesis' influence has been vast. |
This--plus they are the only real prog band that consistently crafted good hit short pop songs like the Beatles.
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Kotro
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 16 2004
Location: Portugal
Status: Offline
Points: 2809
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Posted: August 24 2014 at 05:27 |
Afraid I fall into the "The Beatles of Prog are The Beatles" camp.
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Bigger on the inside.
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Watcher of the Sky
Forum Groupie
Joined: May 25 2014
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 89
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Posted: August 24 2014 at 05:23 |
I'm between Genesis and King Crimson... both had huge influence in prog
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Nous sommes du soleil
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 10066
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Posted: August 24 2014 at 05:23 |
BarryGlibb wrote:
I'll get shouted down here but PF, Genesis and KC were prog or prog-like from the start. They didn't have the mainstream (pop) following that The Beatles did pre their experimental period. The only band IMHO who had mainstream pop(ularity) and then gambled on a complete change of direction a la The Beatles were Radiohead (I am hearing the shouting now!). So that's it from me....Radiohead. |
I'm not saying Radiohead isn't extremely influential but just like hundreds of thousands of more or less ambitious bands they are in debt to Pink Floyd. Saying that Pink Floyd didn't have a mainstram following doesn't make any sense. I hardly know anyone why didn't discover them through a couple of albums by them in their parents collection, and I actually think they've sold more albums than Beatles (with both Dark Side and The Wall among the 10 biggest sellers ever).
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Xonty
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 23 2013
Location: Cornwall
Status: Offline
Points: 1759
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Posted: August 24 2014 at 04:45 |
Very subjective, but it's either Genesis or Procol Harum for me (depending on how you look at the question). Pink Floyd are also a contender for getting worldwide success with "Dark Side Of The Moon", and King Crimson for their debut too. No progressive bands really compare to The Beatles though (in terms of influence and originality).
Back to Procol Harum, seeing as how they made one of the biggest selling singles with "A Whiter Shade Of Pale", they really must have had some influence on their millions of listeners. Also very innovative, seeing as that single was before "Sgt. Pepper" and they released the first ever real prog-rock epic in my mind (In Held Twas In I), etc. Moody Blues is up there too.
Edited by Xonty - August 24 2014 at 04:46
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5101
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Posted: August 24 2014 at 03:24 |
It depends on what aspect of The Beatles is the one you consider relevant for the question. Their popularity? their musical innovation? their capacity to evolve musically from a beat hits band to a quasi-psychedelic and even quasi-prog band? their influence on later bands?
In your OP you say it clearly, 'regarding the artist's influence and popularity'. It would have to be between ELP and Yes then, they were the 'rock stars' within Prog at their peak. As influential as KC or Genesis were, they never had that aurea of 'rock stars', I would even put Floyd on top of them if this is the question.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: August 24 2014 at 01:46 |
chopper wrote:
Scoppioingola wrote:
The Beatles of prog are The Beatles.
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That's all I can think of. There isn't really one band who have had the same impact in prog, except a few instances such as the first King Crimson album, The Yes Album, Foxtrot and a few others |
I don't really go along with this completely. While there's no doubt about the impact Beatles had on rock, in terms of shaping the genre in its early days, they were hardly the only band or artist of great significance. Rolling Stones were probably more important from the point of view of popularising rock as a kind of driving, angry music which Beatles seldom were in the pre-Rubber Soul days. Bob Dylan popularised the idea of rock as a vehicle to register protest or at least weigh in on issues of social significance. In terms of the one big bang event that shaped prog in its archetypal 70s form, it would have to be King Crimson and their ITCOTCK album.
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
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Posted: August 24 2014 at 00:34 |
BrufordFreak wrote:
Scoppioingola wrote:
The Beatles of prog are The Beatles.
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What he said. |
I agree.
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
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Posted: August 24 2014 at 00:33 |
Let's look at what The Beatles did: they released Revolver and Rubber Soul and showed how far individual songs could be taken. Then, with Sgt. Pepper, they were the first to present songs of equal or even better quality on an album that was a coherent whole. This was a quantum leap. And on top of that it was vastly popular.
Has anyone else ever released anything with that much impact? Not to my knowledge.
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Wanorak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 09 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 4574
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Posted: August 23 2014 at 23:08 |
I would say King Crimson as far as influence goes.
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A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!!
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 12609
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Posted: August 23 2014 at 22:27 |
As far es legacy is involved, I would think Pink Floyd. As far as at the time... well it's somewhat difficult for me to say, since I wasn't yet born, but I guess King Crimson among the prog bands. For the fans, I guess it would have to be Yes and/or ELP (or Pink Floyd, once again, after they released Dark Side). But ELP may be more like the Led Zeppelin of prog.
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Nogbad_The_Bad
Forum & Site Admin Group
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team
Joined: March 16 2007
Location: Boston
Status: Offline
Points: 20225
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Posted: August 23 2014 at 19:09 |
There is no prog equivalent of the Beatles.
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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BarryGlibb
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 28 2010
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Status: Offline
Points: 1781
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Posted: August 23 2014 at 18:23 |
I'll get shouted down here but PF, Genesis and KC were prog or prog-like from the start. They didn't have the mainstream (pop) following that The Beatles did pre their experimental period. The only band IMHO who had mainstream pop(ularity) and then gambled on a complete change of direction a la The Beatles were Radiohead (I am hearing the shouting now!). So that's it from me....Radiohead.
Edited by BarryGlibb - August 23 2014 at 18:24
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 10066
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Posted: August 23 2014 at 17:33 |
King Crimson of Pink Floyd the other biggies were nowhere near as influential or forwardthinking.
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Michael678
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 02 2013
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2466
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Posted: August 23 2014 at 17:31 |
i am here to also add in Rush to the table.
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Progrockdude
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Genital Giant
Forum Groupie
Joined: March 30 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 104
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Posted: August 23 2014 at 17:27 |
Genesis. I don't think any Prog band has had as much influence over other Prog bands all the way to present as Genesis. In the 1970's, King Crimson was clearly the big inspirer for the other Proggers, but from the 1980's on, Genesis' influence has been vast.
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