Progressive Metal vs Progressive Rock

Rihanna wrote: Which genre do you enjoy the best?  For me Progressive Metal, i like band like Opeth, Dream Theater and Tool alot, they create awesome music, i still like Progressive rock mostly Porcupine Tree, Blue Oyster Cult, Supertramp and Pink Floyd alot, but for Progressive Metal are better and better aggression!

When I think of progressive rock I don’t really think of Blue Oyster Cult, Supertramp or Pink Floyd.  More like:

 

Yes

Genesis

Gentle Giant

King Crimson

ELP

PFM

Van der Graaf Generator

National Health

 

Although I do enjoy progressive metal my preferences are:

Progressive rock

Fusion Jazz

Zuel / Avant prog

Progressive Metal

addictedtoprog wrote: rogerthat wrote: Interestingly, it is categorically explained in the FAQ of metal archives that they would not include bands who are already commonly classified in a different genre (i.e. non-metal).  So it is acknowledged, as an example, that KC had elements of metal but since they are already referred to as prog rock, it would be counterproductive to include them on a metal website.  In other words, they saw progressive metal as a metal sub genre rather than a prog rock sub genre.  One of their mods had even commented to me that he didn't understand how PA would deal with including prog metal in their database.

Alrighty then.

Interestingly, it is categorically explained in the FAQ of metal archives that they would not include bands who are already commonly classified in a different genre (i.e. non-metal).  So it is acknowledged, as an example, that KC had elements of metal but since they are already referred to as prog rock, it would be counterproductive to include them on a metal website.  In other words, they saw progressive metal as a metal sub genre rather than a prog rock sub genre.  One of their mods had even commented to me that he didn't understand how PA would deal with including prog metal in their database. 

Rush have been admitted unto the Metal-Archives, though, and that site is infamous for being extremely uptight about including groups in ambiguous genres.

A while ago I came across a lengthy review on RateYourMusic of a prog metal record that the reviewer in question was not just dissatisfied with, but also used as an example for a review-as-thesisto explain why so many artists get that angle of combining the two styles wrong. A shame I can't find it right now.

Edited by Toaster Mantis - September 21 2014 at 11:54

I think that's more the case on the black metal side of things, the atmosphere-over-riffing style being strongly informed by ambient electronic music with mid-era Burzum as the missing link. Maybe also Darkthrone's Transilvanian Hunger, which goes in a similar direction and not surprisingly Vikernes receives a songwriting credit for several of the tracks.

Regarding Electric Wizard and similar groups, not only does their image and visual aesthetic come across as more "hippie" than "biker" but their songwriting style is as much "Hawkwind in slow motion with bigger amplifiers" as derived from Black Sabbath.


Edited by Toaster Mantis - September 21 2014 at 07:03

Had completely forgotten about the role of contrasting or building up layers of texture in progressive rock songwriting, and how that's something many progressive metal groups neglect. I wonder if that has to do with that stylistic divergence between prog/psych-rock and HR/HM in the mid-1970s that I mentioned earlier, probably one that had been building on account of the difference in artistic ethos between the two scenes.

An amusing coincidence is that recently, it's become more commonplace for the more introverted metal subgenres like the psychedelic end of doom metal (e. g. Electric Wizard) or the types of black metal (e. g. Drudkh) that emphasize atmosphere over riffing to go over in the opposite pitfall: Id est songwriting that focuses entirely on development of texture at the expense of a clear sense of narrative structure in the composition. In the case of Electric Wizard it's clear they're a stylistically metal band who are closer to 1960s/1970s psychedelia in both ideological outlook as well as visual aesthetic, but what's the excuse of the Eastern European ultranationalists in Drudkh? A misappropriation of Varg Vikernes' interest in Krautrock?

Yeah, I started with progressive metal, but the more I listen the more I like the rock stuff. Even the best prog metal bands don't have fluid range of emotions and textures that make prog rock amazing. I actually prefer straight-up heavy metal like Judas Priest to most prog metal. Of course I love the heavy sound, so "heavy" prog like King Crimson and Rush usually do the trick for me.

As someone who's into both metal and prog-rock, I find a lot of better known prog metal's fusion of the two to come across as rather kitschy perhaps by being very literal in the way it combines the two.

I suspect the reason is that most prominent progressive metal groups combine styles from after progressive rock and heavy metal had diverged even further than they did in the 1970s. Even back then, I gather there was something of a culture clash between the two: The progressive rock movement tended to emphasize the interplaying instrumental dynamics and usually had detailed philosophical or ideological worldviews underlying either the individual record or entire career project's conceptual ethos; the early hard rock/heavy metal groups on the other hand tended towards emphasis on the instrumental prowess of individual musicians in the band, and they also make a point out of moral or ideological ambiguity in their artistic ethos. This means that the tropes from the disparate styles stick out more, when there isn't developed a newer fluid musical grammar in order to provide a coherent synthesis between the two. That's my best guess as to why groups like Dream Theater and Opeth don't do that much for me, their songs' narrative structures don't strike me as quite as logically consistent as if they had stuck to either genre's rules as either an ideal to live up to or main target to subvert.

My favourite prog metal groups are usually just more ambitious and complex than usual for their respective subgenre (e. g. early Fates Warning), or they come at both metal and prog from a sort of "sideways perspective". (e. g. Virus, Voivod)

Edited by Toaster Mantis - September 20 2014 at 13:42

Dean wrote:  Prog was described exactly like that in the 70s.