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Hercules View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Genesis documentary
    Posted: October 04 2014 at 16:54
Did anyone see this on BBC2 this evening?

I'd be interested to hear other peoples' opinions on what it revealed to them.

Basically, I felt Banks came out as a control freak who drove Hackett out; he was sort of airbrushed out of their history, except in a very minor role.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2014 at 17:11
BBC2 caught me by surprise with this documentary tonight and I only encountered the ending, but it looked like a great documentary. Followed by Genesis top of the pops..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2014 at 17:18
Originally posted by Darious Darious wrote:

BBC2 caught me by surprise with this documentary tonight and I only encountered the ending, but it looked like a great documentary. Followed by Genesis top of the pops..

It's very revealing. There was more to infer from what was NOT said than what was; the body language is fascinating at times.

You could try iPlayer when the Top of the Pops has ended. Well worth it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2014 at 17:49

When they were all together the conversation was fairly stilted.  I don't think Tony came across at all well.  He didn't get his way with The Lamb so he got stroppy and he made sure he got more work on the albums than Steve so Steve buggered off.

Steve got less of a mention than Ant in the whole thing - (although, that might just be my perception).  When they were were talking about solo work Steve's stuff wasn't even mentioned.  I guess it was never quite as popular as Gabriels or Collins'. 

ANyway, Tony would drive me out of any band. 

Surprised to see a certain child molester JK.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2014 at 23:36
Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Did anyone see this on BBC2 this evening?

I'd be interested to hear other peoples' opinions on what it revealed to them.

Basically, I felt Banks came out as a control freak who drove Hackett out; he was sort of airbrushed out of their history, except in a very minor role.

I can't wait to see it--think it is on Showtime this week---and it is interesting that what you say came out as it is pretty much common knowledge---Banks is the power in the group. Hackett's input on this lineup was very powerful and important no matter what Banks says---the music that came after Hackett was very good but with Hackett it was inspired.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2014 at 02:10
Originally posted by akamaisondufromage akamaisondufromage wrote:

When they were all together the conversation was fairly stilted.  I don't think Tony came across at all well.  He didn't get his way with The Lamb so he got stroppy and he made sure he got more work on the albums than Steve so Steve buggered off. Steve got less of a mention than Ant in the whole thing - (although, that might just be my perception).  When they were were talking about solo work Steve's stuff wasn't even mentioned.  I guess it was never quite as popular as Gabriels or Collins'.  ANyway, Tony would drive me out of any band.  Surprised to see a certain child molester JK.



Yeah it pissed me off that Steves solo career was completely overlooked. I don't know if this was a case of the BBC just not bothering to cover it because it wasn't as high profile as Pete or Phil, or the controlling hand of Banks wanting to sideline Steve, but then not much was said about Tonys solo efforts either.

Interestingly, and disappointly they completely skipped over the WAW/Seconds Out era, jumping from ATOTT to ATTWT with just s snippet of "Your own special way" This was of course the period where the politics really came between Banks and Hackett, and led to Hacketts departure. It's also arguaby the period when the band were at the height of their musical prowess as a prog rock band, so it's a shame they skipped over it.

It was a pleasant eneough watch, but it didn't tell me anything I didn't know about the band. The very early footage was cool and it was interesting to see all the band sitting there together and the body language between them.

I pretty much disagreed with the entire definition of prog rock that that woman gave. Whoever she was.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2014 at 03:02
Certain things were completely skipped over ie the original drummer John Mayhew was not mentioned at all and neither was Calling All Stations most notably. Banks face was a picture when Hackett talked about his solo material - no love lost there obviously. Collins probably came out best and makes you realise that he got far too much stick (ho ho) for Genesis going in a pop direction, It was clear that Banks was very happy with having hit records. One thing that annoyed me though was no mention of any other prog bands and I would have liked to know their opinions on that and the movement in general.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2014 at 04:47
Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Did anyone see this on BBC2 this evening?

I'd be interested to hear other peoples' opinions on what it revealed to them.

Basically, I felt Banks came out as a control freak who drove Hackett out; he was sort of airbrushed out of their history, except in a very minor role.


It is not a surprise here that Banks was always reluctant to accept Hackett's ideas for songs. Banks always wanted to keep control of the Genesis sound and direction.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2014 at 08:37

Steve on Twitter posted this:

'Thanks to all for your support re the documentary. By totally ignoring my solo career it fails to deliver the theme of "Together and Apart".'

so not happy !
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2014 at 08:43
Steve deserves better. I guarantee, even though his solo discography is inconsistent (and Lord, his `Please Don't Touch' is one of the least favourite albums I own), it's a lot more interesting and worthwhile than anything Tony Banks did away from Genesis. It probably rubs Tony the wrong way that Steve's now known for holding the prog Genesis flag while no-one really gives a s**t anymore about the pop version.

No chance any DVD/Bluray release of this doco might include more footage, such as all the things people have mentioned above as missing?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2014 at 08:58
Does anybody in the US know somewhere online I can watch this? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2014 at 09:02
Isn't this coming out on DVD soon?


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2014 at 09:11
Originally posted by Floydian42 Floydian42 wrote:

Does anybody in the US know somewhere online I can watch this? 


1. i have no clue whatsoever!! and im American myself, but....

2. Am i the first one who is telling you that the DVD/Blu-ray release may be extended?? oh, and its stupid to call the same documentary a different name. first "Together and Apart" and now "Sum of the Parts"?? seriously?! i didn't mention that before, but i did now!! just thought i want to let you guys know that.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2014 at 09:15
Most of you probably know this, but Three Sides Live is coming on DVD/BR in November.  Big smile

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2014 at 09:30
I thought it was really badly made and badly put together.

Also  I couldn't give a toss for what the two "experts" had to say, their presence seemed to be superfluous and unnecessary. 

After hearing me complain all the time my wife suggested I turn it off, and after 2 seconds thought, I did. Somehow I don't think I missed anything special.

Dreadful programme.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2014 at 09:38
So you didn't like it Dean? LOL

The 'experts' were apalling. They didin't seem to know very much about anything let alone all things Genesisy.  Maybe they should have got that w**ker Clarkeson in to wax on an on
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2014 at 10:06
My favourite parts of the documentary...

1. The footage of Phil performing Who Dunnit?

2. The moment where Tony said he didn't like the Lamb story back then and he still doesn't today, whilst sitting next to Peter.

3. Steve Hackett giving his reasons for leaving to do solo work with a sarcastic "god forgive me guys" as the camera switches to show a very unimpressed Tony Banks and Mike Rutherford.. Hilarious! Worth watching this documentary just for that.

4. It was interesting to see that footage of the Roundhouse gig with Ant exists. Would love to see more! 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2014 at 12:23
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I thought it was really badly made and badly put together.

Also  I couldn't give a toss for what the two "experts" had to say, their presence seemed to be superfluous and unnecessary. 

After hearing me complain all the time my wife suggested I turn it off, and after 2 seconds thought, I did. Somehow I don't think I missed anything special.

Dreadful programme.

How do you know if you didn't watch it all? It's like me writing off Bursting at the Seams and The Strawbs in general for over 20 years after hearing Part of the Union, which ranks amongst my worst errors.

I thought it was incredibly revealing, despite some faults. I thought the two female "experts" were far more knowledgeable and positive than most pundits are about Genesis.

But the complete failure to mention Hackett's solo career rankles.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2014 at 13:10
Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I thought it was really badly made and badly put together.

Also  I couldn't give a toss for what the two "experts" had to say, their presence seemed to be superfluous and unnecessary. 

After hearing me complain all the time my wife suggested I turn it off, and after 2 seconds thought, I did. Somehow I don't think I missed anything special.

Dreadful programme.

How do you know if you didn't watch it all? It's like me writing off Bursting at the Seams and The Strawbs in general for over 20 years after hearing Part of the Union, which ranks amongst my worst errors.

I thought it was incredibly revealing, despite some faults. I thought the two female "experts" were far more knowledgeable and positive than most pundits are about Genesis.

But the complete failure to mention Hackett's solo career rankles.
Do you need to watch something you are not enjoying all the way to the end to know you're not enjoying it?

Chris Stewart, who played on those demos and some of G2R, wasn't mentioned, now a successful author surely he deserved some mention instead of the screen-time they gave to ex-public schoolboy Al 'the pub landlord' Murray. John Silver also played on G2R and was not mention either. Ant Philips's leaving over shadowed John Mayhew's departure - the way the programme was edited made it seem like Ant was replaced by Phil. (Yeah I know Ant said that in the programme). Not only was Hackett's solo career bypassed, so was his contribution to the band.

All the "experts" (including the two females) had an alarming knack of stating the bleedin' obvious. I dunno, perhaps I just dislike the current BBC technique of piecing together documentary narration using (scripted, or at least spoon-fed) soundbites from talking head pundits of dubious credentials... sorry I don't recall her name, but how does the young lady (mid 30s? I'm calling that young) from the New Statesman know what the atmosphere was like in Charterhouse in the late 1960s? How does she know how (never) cool Genesis were in the ten or twelve years before she was even born?

[I have since watched the whole thing on iPlayer, as I thought, I did not miss anything special]


Edited by Dean - October 05 2014 at 13:11
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2014 at 13:20
I thought it was okay and was certainly effective in revealing the group dynamic. There were a couple of times when Banks was speaking where the look of utter distaste on Gabriel's face was hilarious. My interest flagged when it moved on to the 80s pop stuff.
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