Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Marillion's Brave: A Classic or Overblown Mess?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Marillion's Brave: A Classic or Overblown Mess?
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 5>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Harold B View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: October 29 2022
Location: Norfolk
Status: Offline
Points: 55 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harold B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Marillion's Brave: A Classic or Overblown Mess?
    Posted: February 25 2024 at 15:20
I love fish Marillion. I even liked SE/HIE. I bought Brave day of release. I still can't get it. It's just dull. I must admit I struggled with TSE onwards. 
Back to Top
Frets N Worries View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 30 2023
Location: Your Basement
Status: Offline
Points: 4261 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frets N Worries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2024 at 01:39
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

Listening to it now, not sure how memorable it's going to be, but it sounds good, and the playing is fantastic. I have a feeling it's going to be like 'Wind and Wuthering' a fantastic record, but nothing super memorable. One I'll occasionally come back to 


Nothing memorable on Wind & Wuthering?! Shocked The only thing not memorable on it is Rutherford's ballad (YOSW), everything else is worthy of praise. 


I've heard it half a dozen times. Everytime I listen to it I love it, but it never sticks with me.


So you only listened to it 6 times? LOL And it still did not click with you?! I don't know what to say then, give it a second chance or give up on the band altogether, maybe it's not your thing. 

I'll give it another spin tomorrow, I'm a huge fan of Genesis (I was listening to The Lamb earlier, fantastic
The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.

Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time...
Back to Top
Cristi View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Crossover / Prog Metal Teams

Joined: July 27 2006
Location: wonderland
Status: Online
Points: 46748 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2024 at 01:37
Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

Listening to it now, not sure how memorable it's going to be, but it sounds good, and the playing is fantastic. I have a feeling it's going to be like 'Wind and Wuthering' a fantastic record, but nothing super memorable. One I'll occasionally come back to 


Nothing memorable on Wind & Wuthering?! Shocked The only thing not memorable on it is Rutherford's ballad (YOSW), everything else is worthy of praise. 


I've heard it half a dozen times. Everytime I listen to it I love it, but it never sticks with me.

So you only listened to it 6 times? LOL And it still did not click with you?! I don't know what to say then, give it a second chance or give up on the band altogether, maybe it's not your thing. 
Back to Top
Frets N Worries View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 30 2023
Location: Your Basement
Status: Offline
Points: 4261 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frets N Worries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2024 at 01:27
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

Listening to it now, not sure how memorable it's going to be, but it sounds good, and the playing is fantastic. I have a feeling it's going to be like 'Wind and Wuthering' a fantastic record, but nothing super memorable. One I'll occasionally come back to 


Nothing memorable on Wind & Wuthering?! Shocked The only thing not memorable on it is Rutherford's ballad (YOSW), everything else is worthy of praise. 


I've heard it half a dozen times. Everytime I listen to it I love it, but it never sticks with me.
The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.

Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time...
Back to Top
Cristi View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Crossover / Prog Metal Teams

Joined: July 27 2006
Location: wonderland
Status: Online
Points: 46748 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2024 at 00:25
Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

Listening to it now, not sure how memorable it's going to be, but it sounds good, and the playing is fantastic. I have a feeling it's going to be like 'Wind and Wuthering' a fantastic record, but nothing super memorable. One I'll occasionally come back to 

Nothing memorable on Wind & Wuthering?! Shocked The only thing not memorable on it is Rutherford's ballad (YOSW), everything else is worthy of praise. 
Back to Top
Frets N Worries View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 30 2023
Location: Your Basement
Status: Offline
Points: 4261 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frets N Worries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2024 at 20:50
Listening to it now, not sure how memorable it's going to be, but it sounds good, and the playing is fantastic. I have a feeling it's going to be like 'Wind and Wuthering' a fantastic record, but nothing super memorable. One I'll occasionally come back to 
The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.

Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time...
Back to Top
richardh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 30264 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2024 at 16:47
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

So I had another listen to it a few days ago to see if my opinion had changed in 15 years (it really has been that long!) . First of all its 71 minutes long . Wow that did surprise me and they did play the whole thing at the St Davids Hall gig back in the 90's. My issue is still the same - no real memorable songs.
...
 

Hi,

I'm not sure that "memorable" is the proper word, or idea, to look at these pieces of music. No one here or in 73 years of my ears, has anyone tried to hum along with Beethoven's 9th, 8th, 7th, or whichever, of anyone stopped the world by humming along with Stravinsky ... that is NOT a good criteria for music, and sadly enough is something that is used by folks within "progressive this or that" ... and a lot of the music that is considered "progressive" is not designed, and NEVER WAS, to be on a top 5 or top 10 ,,, yet, we treat them like they were a hit song, which is sad, and takes away a lot of what the original musicians wanted to do with their music ... which in most cases was to break away from the AM styled radio control, and the new FM Radio band helped make the long cuts favorable and loved ... we love Layla, but I have never heard anyone hum along or whistle with it!

I kinda think that this "memorable" thing belongs to the hits, and is a part of the radio of 50 years ago, but I'm not sure that we will remember any of the top 50 AoY for 2023 by the amount of memorable moments that we can whistle to or humm. 

I'm gonna try PoiL now ... maybe I can whistle something! Wink

It seems to fall on deaf ears but I hate it when my posts are edited. So here is my full post

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

So I had another listen to it a few days ago to see if my opinion had changed in 15 years (it really has been that long!) . First of all its 71 minutes long . Wow that did surprise me and they did play the whole thing at the St Davids Hall gig back in the 90's. My issue is still the same - no real memorable songs. However I'm missing the point as usual as its basically one very long song and that was the point. It flows perfectly and Hogarth sings as well as any time in his career and has a truly beautiful voice. It definitely has a reason for existing and will permanently divide opinion , but that's nothing against it. However I would prefer to listen to 5 other Marillion H era albums before it and it probably would scrape into my personal Marillion Top Ten. Different folks different strokes. BTW I wish people would just give opinions rather than snipe at other people for not saying what they want to hear , oh well okay it is Progarchives Smile 

So you deliberately ignored my comment 'However I'm missing the point as usual as its basically one very long song and that was the point' just so you could just have yet another version of you bigging yourself up.
I struggle with the album but I respect it even if I'm never really going to love it I suspect. Nevermind there is plenty of other music for me to listen to out there.
BTW Poil Ueda is good but personally I prefer Yosh*tsune over the first one. This is a totally different style of music to neo prog . I suspect you know this though Confused
Back to Top
mellotronwave View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 30 2021
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 11698 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mellotronwave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2024 at 15:18
A classic
"You must not talk to idiots, it instructs them" (Michel Audiard)
" Je ne parle pas aux idiots , cela les instruit"
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18626 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2024 at 08:10
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

So I had another listen to it a few days ago to see if my opinion had changed in 15 years (it really has been that long!) . First of all its 71 minutes long . Wow that did surprise me and they did play the whole thing at the St Davids Hall gig back in the 90's. My issue is still the same - no real memorable songs.
...
 

Hi,

I'm not sure that "memorable" is the proper word, or idea, to look at these pieces of music. No one here or in 73 years of my ears, has anyone tried to hum along with Beethoven's 9th, 8th, 7th, or whichever, of anyone stopped the world by humming along with Stravinsky ... that is NOT a good criteria for music, and sadly enough is something that is used by folks within "progressive this or that" ... and a lot of the music that is considered "progressive" is not designed, and NEVER WAS, to be on a top 5 or top 10 ,,, yet, we treat them like they were a hit song, which is sad, and takes away a lot of what the original musicians wanted to do with their music ... which in most cases was to break away from the AM styled radio control, and the new FM Radio band helped make the long cuts favorable and loved ... we love Layla, but I have never heard anyone hum along or whistle with it!

I kinda think that this "memorable" thing belongs to the hits, and is a part of the radio of 50 years ago, but I'm not sure that we will remember any of the top 50 AoY for 2023 by the amount of memorable moments that we can whistle to or humm. 

I'm gonna try PoiL now ... maybe I can whistle something! Wink
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
lazland View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13880 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2024 at 13:31
Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

It was 30 years old last week😳😎

Incredible, isn't it? 
Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
Back to Top
essexboyinwales View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: April 27 2015
Location: Bridgend
Status: Offline
Points: 5350 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote essexboyinwales Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2024 at 09:19
It was 30 years old last week😳😎
Heaven is waiting but waiting is Hell
Back to Top
Cristi View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Crossover / Prog Metal Teams

Joined: July 27 2006
Location: wonderland
Status: Online
Points: 46748 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2024 at 09:11
Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

For me it’s a classic, and sits in my top 3 Marillion albums with MC and CAS. I love a concept album and this is a great one - it’s moody, it’s dark, it’s atmospheric….and it has The Great Escape, one of Marillion’s very finest moments😎😎😎
Thumbs UpTongue
Back to Top
essexboyinwales View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: April 27 2015
Location: Bridgend
Status: Offline
Points: 5350 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote essexboyinwales Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2024 at 09:10
For me it’s a classic, and sits in my top 3 Marillion albums with MC and CAS. I love a concept album and this is a great one - it’s moody, it’s dark, it’s atmospheric….and it has The Great Escape, one of Marillion’s very finest moments😎😎😎
Heaven is waiting but waiting is Hell
Back to Top
Hrychu View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 03 2013
Location: poland?
Status: Offline
Points: 5975 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2024 at 01:52
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

there is a certain 'fascism' and snobbery about classical music that I hate anyway. Admittedly this can translate to 'progressive rock' as well (no name no pack drill LOL)
Oh yes! I agree! Especially progressive electronic! The hardcore progressive electronic snobs will defend even the biggest smelly turd shat out by the almighty Klaus Schmaltze and glorify that pointless early Tangerine Dream racket (the Phaedra, Rubycon, Stratosphear etc. era stuff) no matter how cringeworthy and bland sounding. I mean, yeah. I'm not the target listener for progressive electronic. You got it! ;)
Back to Top
richardh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 30264 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2024 at 00:13
^ Of course no one is going to discuss Mozart in that way, there is a certain 'fascism' and snobbery about classical music that I hate anyway. Admittedly this can translate to 'progressive rock' as well (no name no pack drill LOL)

Edited by richardh - February 17 2024 at 00:13
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18626 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2024 at 03:34
Hi,

This goes back a few years, but my thoughts are the the "mess" is in our heads, not in the musician's work.

The big difference, is that we don't have the courage to stand up and create something ... as opposed to the band (in this case) and the material. 

It's stange, and weird, that when we don't "get it", we immediately find it horrible, and bad.

None of us sits here and discusses which of Mozart violin concerts is crap. Or Beethoven's Sonatas. But we sit here and think that some Beatles songs are ... the stool pit ... and someone else's ... this or that. 

I suppose I have no qualms with "Metal Machine Music", but then, I would stand up and finger the record company too! As in take this job and shove it! Heck, even Mike Oldfield did that ... and we like that piece, regardless of how weird it is ... far more entertaining than a lot of his rehashes!


Edited by moshkito - February 16 2024 at 03:35
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
Magog2112 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 05 2023
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 539 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magog2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2024 at 10:04
Marillion's Brave is a classic. In fact, it's in my top 3 albums of all time. There are no weak moments throughout its 70-minute runtime. Almost every song on Brave are among my favorite Marillion songs. The musicianship and performances found on this record are stunning. Each musician is given a chance to shine. The flow of Brave is impeccable. I simply can't praise this album enough.
Back to Top
Boojieboy View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 02 2016
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 664 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boojieboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2024 at 17:15
Brave is decent album, maybe 3.5 stars. It's got good moments. It's neither a classic nor a mess.

I used to listen to it much more (say 15 years ago) than now. I hardly ever listen to it now, or only listen to a few songs. Of all the albums from the first to Radiation, I'd put this in the lower third of the ranked albums. It's as overrated in the Hogarth catalog as Misplaced Childhood is (to me) in the Fish catalog.


Edited by Boojieboy - January 19 2024 at 17:28
Back to Top
kenethlevine View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Prog-Folk Team

Joined: December 06 2006
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 9178 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2024 at 11:12
 I haven't been in a rush to listen to it, but give me another decade or so
Back to Top
Steve Wyzard View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 30 2017
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 2985 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve Wyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2024 at 10:08
[/QUOTE] I still haven't seen the movie. I was always afraid that it would resemble a 70 minute long video.
[/QUOTE]

Actually, the movie they "allowed to accompany the music" is only 60 minutes, because they exclude "Paper Lies" and "Made Again", my two favorite songs on the album. I can sort of understand leaving "Paper Lies" out, because it's really just a "side-bar" to the album's concept/story. But excluding the unnamed protagonist's ultimate redemption in "Made Again" is simply unforgivable and an act of violence against the album. Still, the band signed off on it, and of course the director just wanted it to be a morbid and gloomy suicide story, so "Made Again" had to go!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 5>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.299 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.