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Pallas - The Messenger : out now!

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richardh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2023 at 17:13
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ I think the problem is that some artists expect to record an album and then be able to live on the income generated by people listening to that recording (either directly by listening via streaming or indirectly by purchasing a copy). That does not work except for a handful of extremely popular artists, simply because there is not enough money and/or listening going on in the world compared to the number of releases we listen to.

I have listened to 250+ releases of 2023 in full. Had I purchased all of them, that would have cost me about $2000. Hypothetically, in a world without streaming services or illegal downloads, The alternative would have been that I purchase a fraction of these releases (say, about 20) and then listen more to those.  

That's the thing: In the old days (say 1980s/90s) we were buying fewer records and listened more to them (a model which Pallas seems to cater to), whereas today we are used to having access to more albums for the same money (My Spotify fees amount to about 10 albums per year). We still listen to the same amount/volume of music, but by more bands.

This is very pertinent especially the last paragraph. Also everything was released on vinyl until CD sales really took off (late eighties?). CD then could easily be ripped into computers at which point we got more hooked on the idea of streaming at the click of a mouse and not having to spend 10 minutes rummaging around looking for a bloody CD. I'm not down on what I see as natural evolution but somehow we have a weird situation where tons of bands are getting paid nothing but still somehow keeping putting music out. It's a hobby surely? Even for bands such as IQ which are well established I'm fairly sure they weren't living off their album sales even back in the late 90's and early 00's before streaming took hold. Pallas are at least one league below IQ.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2023 at 00:26
Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

On RYM and AP, it's not very highly rated..., got a low tier C on AP, and a 3.03 on RYM

Currently that is only the combined rating from PA and RYM on AP ... still waiting for the first rating by a user Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2023 at 00:33
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ I think the problem is that some artists expect to record an album and then be able to live on the income generated by people listening to that recording (either directly by listening via streaming or indirectly by purchasing a copy). That does not work except for a handful of extremely popular artists, simply because there is not enough money and/or listening going on in the world compared to the number of releases we listen to.

I have listened to 250+ releases of 2023 in full. Had I purchased all of them, that would have cost me about $2000. Hypothetically, in a world without streaming services or illegal downloads, The alternative would have been that I purchase a fraction of these releases (say, about 20) and then listen more to those.  

That's the thing: In the old days (say 1980s/90s) we were buying fewer records and listened more to them (a model which Pallas seems to cater to), whereas today we are used to having access to more albums for the same money (My Spotify fees amount to about 10 albums per year). We still listen to the same amount/volume of music, but by more bands.

This is very pertinent especially the last paragraph. Also everything was released on vinyl until CD sales really took off (late eighties?). CD then could easily be ripped into computers at which point we got more hooked on the idea of streaming at the click of a mouse and not having to spend 10 minutes rummaging around looking for a bloody CD. I'm not down on what I see as natural evolution but somehow we have a weird situation where tons of bands are getting paid nothing but still somehow keeping putting music out. It's a hobby surely? Even for bands such as IQ which are well established I'm fairly sure they weren't living off their album sales even back in the late 90's and early 00's before streaming took hold. Pallas are at least one league below IQ.

I really don't think that living off of your album sales is a good business model for the average artist. Instead of blaming Spotify when that does not work, IMHO they should find models where they get compensated for the continuous work they do, like live shows, or actual stuff they sell (CDs, vinyls, merchandise). The fact that there are many more artists today than there were in the 80s of course means that most of them will never make enough money to live off of their music, no matter what they do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2023 at 18:37
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ I think the problem is that some artists expect to record an album and then be able to live on the income generated by people listening to that recording (either directly by listening via streaming or indirectly by purchasing a copy). That does not work except for a handful of extremely popular artists, simply because there is not enough money and/or listening going on in the world compared to the number of releases we listen to.

I have listened to 250+ releases of 2023 in full. Had I purchased all of them, that would have cost me about $2000. Hypothetically, in a world without streaming services or illegal downloads, The alternative would have been that I purchase a fraction of these releases (say, about 20) and then listen more to those.  

That's the thing: In the old days (say 1980s/90s) we were buying fewer records and listened more to them (a model which Pallas seems to cater to), whereas today we are used to having access to more albums for the same money (My Spotify fees amount to about 10 albums per year). We still listen to the same amount/volume of music, but by more bands.

This is very pertinent especially the last paragraph. Also everything was released on vinyl until CD sales really took off (late eighties?). CD then could easily be ripped into computers at which point we got more hooked on the idea of streaming at the click of a mouse and not having to spend 10 minutes rummaging around looking for a bloody CD. I'm not down on what I see as natural evolution but somehow we have a weird situation where tons of bands are getting paid nothing but still somehow keeping putting music out. It's a hobby surely? Even for bands such as IQ which are well established I'm fairly sure they weren't living off their album sales even back in the late 90's and early 00's before streaming took hold. Pallas are at least one league below IQ.

I really don't think that living off of your album sales is a good business model for the average artist. Instead of blaming Spotify when that does not work, IMHO they should find models where they get compensated for the continuous work they do, like live shows, or actual stuff they sell (CDs, vinyls, merchandise). The fact that there are many more artists today than there were in the 80s of course means that most of them will never make enough money to live off of their music, no matter what they do.

Does seems that way, I guess they can only make enough money to cover costs at best. Touring has never been a great way of making money and generally was seen as a way to promote the album. Don't know on merch but I have purchased the odd band T-shirt here and there but that's about it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2023 at 02:15
^ Both touring and CDs only work as a revenue stream for really popular artists. Most prog artists these days are not popular enough to attract the number of people required to make it work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2023 at 10:27
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ Both touring and CDs only work as a revenue stream for really popular artists. Most prog artists these days are not popular enough to attract the number of people required to make it work.

Mike, I agree with you. So, having established that, how do you think things can change in order to make what they do commercially viable, or should they simply do it for the love of art?

A serious question, BTW, not a trick or cheap shot, because this is a problem for even established artists.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2023 at 14:38
^ Yes, absolutely. I do not have an easy solution. For me as a listener the solution is to use all the legal sources available, including Spotify and Bandcamp, which enables me to listen to a lot of albums which I then promote here and on AP. For the artists it remains a difficult challenge. Ultimately there may be too many to make it work for everyone, which means that some will have to do it for free (as a hobby), while others can earn a decent living from their music. It is a market which will regulate itself for the most part, even though that is not fair for all the people involved.

Edited by MikeEnRegalia - December 19 2023 at 14:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frets N Worries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2023 at 14:49
^As an artist, I agree with Mike. I'm fine with doing it as a hobby. The market isnt very fair, so be it
Cause its only knock and know all, but I like it...

Writing (Or Suffering from Writers Block)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gentle and Giant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2023 at 10:59
Apart from Suitkees, has anyone else heard this yet? Opinions if so as I'm tempted to get the CD - is the only place to get it from Bandcamp (or is there anywhere else)?
Oh, for the wings of any bird, other than a battery hen
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2023 at 11:53
Originally posted by Gentle and Giant Gentle and Giant wrote:

Apart from Suitkees, has anyone else heard this yet? Opinions if so as I'm tempted to get the CD - is the only place to get it from Bandcamp (or is there anywhere else)?

Chris, I’ve listened to it a couple of times now. I think this is a serious grower which demands careful listening, and, as such, any review on my website won’t appear until early 2024. Reed sounds very strong and there are some seriously good passages here, but dissection will take a bit longer.

I believe that Bandcamp is the only place to get it, but a disclaimer that I am not altogether certain. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gentle and Giant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2023 at 14:09
^ Cheers Steve, I may wait until the NY for some more reviews to show up, but your summary sounds promising.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suitkees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2023 at 10:49
Interesting to read all the opinions about the alleged marketing strategies of Pallas. Maybe they don't want to make it available for free listening, which is of course a honourable stance. Maybe they will release all or some tracks for listening in the weeks to come; nothing has been communicated about all that and I think we indeed have to respect their choices, whatever they are. I must admit though that I wouldn't have made my bandcamp order if I hadn't been able to listen to it before thanks to that now deleted youtube-link.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2023 at 11:47
In the past couple of months I've seen thousands of Bandcamp release pages, and only a handful of them did not make the full release available for streaming. I think it's neither honourable nor dishonourable to block the streaming, all I'm saying is that it is really unusual. On the musicbrainz release page they label all bandcamp links as "purchase for download and stream for free" because that is the norm ... https://musicbrainz.org/release/c4da9116-3b72-43be-a178-d5a0fe6b53b5
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gentle and Giant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2023 at 14:38
Ah well, I relented and ordered the CD from Bandcamp. The Limited Edition Digibook - it won't arrive until the NY, but it came with a 24-48 FLAC download version so I can gives it a play soonest - I hope it's good lol.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2023 at 15:26
I don't care about the plastic (the digibook is surely nice, but I have so many already), so I purchased the download only. Listening now ...

Edited by MikeEnRegalia - December 21 2023 at 15:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gentle and Giant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2023 at 08:54
First listen - meh
Second listen - Umm, OK
Third listen - better
Fourth listen - AWESOME

It's a great album imo, possibly Pallas' best. I'm glad I bought it. Big smile
Oh, for the wings of any bird, other than a battery hen
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gentle and Giant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2023 at 07:52
The CD turned up today as well - great service. 
Oh, for the wings of any bird, other than a battery hen
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2023 at 22:26
Still think it's a bit pricey. I purchased some 'physical' the other day (eMolecule vinyl for less than £20 and the Haken Fauna CD for about £8) and have to be more savvy about these things nowadays with limited funds available.  I suppose you do get the download as well as the CD for about £14 which would just about justify it as long as I can put the download into I-Tunes. May give it a go as an experiment because I do want to hear the album.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2023 at 01:35
^ iTunes? If you mean Apple music then no, you’ll need to subscribe to iTunes Match to be able to add the Pallas Album to the library and have it synced to all devices. But I guess you can listen to the album through the BC app once you’ve purchased it.

I have iTunes Match, so many releases still aren’t available on Spotify …
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