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Tony R 
Special Collaborator
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Joined: July 16 2004
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 Topic: GENESIS is highly overrated,
Posted: February 27 2006 at 18:05 |
I'm closing this thread.
I will also keep a close watch on the originator.
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The Miracle
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: hell
Status: Offline
Points: 28427
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Posted: February 27 2006 at 18:05 |
 Progger wrote:
IVAN, It ain't me, honest! Yes, I do not think of Genesis as the greatest prog band but I have always stated that I do actually like them. And 'Supper's Ready' is one of the greatest songs ever written! |
Hey nice to hear that
To me it's the greatest song ever written
Ivan is right about everything, as always.
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Posted: February 27 2006 at 18:03 |
ivan_2068 wrote:
Micky Wrote:
hmmmm...
to bring something substanitive to this thread....
Ivan-
other than language... what is the difference between German and
Italian Opera. Remember I'm just a cultureless American who likes
Opera.. but couldn't discuss it if my life depended on it.
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Yeah, lets hang the subject, this underrated/overrated threads are tiresome.
Well I'm not an expert and haven't watched all the Italian
Operas (Despite my mother is a fan of the genre and
have seen them since the VHS years), but I find the Italian Opera
more based in feelings, and too soft (Of course there are exceptions
like Caballeria Rusticana and Aida).
I'm a huge Wagner fan, I've seen and heard Rienzi, Tanheusser,
Lohengrim, Die Meistersinger von Nurembersg and Der Fliegende Hollander
one thousand times (Also like Karl Orff's masterpiece Carmina Burana)
and it's IMO more brilliant, aggressive, intense, better if you
try to get the story.
The stories are very rich and describe the Germanic feeling
perfectly, the importanve they gave to their mythical history. German
sagas, fights between the devotion for God and the Pagan divinities
like Wotan and even Venus (as in Tanheusser who dies
because the doubt between his devotion for Venus and for the
Virgin Mary).
The whole story of Der Ring of Niibelungen describes the
German/Nordic mythology, it's simpky amazing, great to see or
listen it in five days at least if you got the DVD's or CD's.
But the most important is the music, Wagner blends the warrior
spirit of the Germans with their dramatic passions, love is not the
word to describe the feelings in Wagner's opera, the word is pure
passion.
Believe the key word is intensity.
Until you haven't heard Pilgrim's Chorus (Begluckt darf Nun) from
Tanheusser, you haven't touched perfection, it's the most incredible
piece of music ever written.
Iván |
you are a real gem Ivan.. Thanks! I'll check out Pilgrim's Chorus..
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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FragileDT
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: June 20 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1485
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Posted: February 27 2006 at 18:03 |
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What is "SUPPER IS READY"? Is it a new Genesis epic I haven't heard yet?
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One likes to believe
In the freedom of music
But glittering prizes
And endless Compromises
Shatter the illusion
Of integrity
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19535
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Posted: February 27 2006 at 17:53 |
Micky Wrote:
hmmmm...
to bring something substanitive to this thread....
Ivan- other than language... what is the difference between German and Italian Opera. Remember I'm just a cultureless American who likes Opera.. but couldn't discuss it if my life depended on it.
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Yeah, lets hang the subject, this underrated/overrated threads are tiresome.
Well I'm not an expert and haven't watched all the Italian Operas (Despite my mother is a fan of the genre and have seen them since the VHS years), but I find the Italian Opera more based in feelings, and too soft (Of course there are exceptions like Caballeria Rusticana and Aida).
I'm a huge Wagner fan, I've seen and heard Rienzi, Tanheusser, Lohengrim, Die Meistersinger von Nurembersg and Der Fliegende Hollander one thousand times (Also like Karl Orff's masterpiece Carmina Burana) and it's IMO more brilliant, aggressive, intense, better if you try to get the story.
The stories are very rich and describe the Germanic feeling perfectly, the importanve they gave to their mythical history. German sagas, fights between the devotion for God and the Pagan divinities like Wotan and even Venus (as in Tanheusser who dies because the doubt between his devotion for Venus and for the Virgin Mary).
The whole story of Der Ring of Niibelungen describes the German/Nordic mythology, it's simpky amazing, great to see or listen it in five days at least if you got the DVD's or CD's.
But the most important is the music, Wagner blends the warrior spirit of the Germans with their dramatic passions, love is not the word to describe the feelings in Wagner's opera, the word is pure passion.
Believe the key word is intensity.
Until you haven't heard Pilgrim's Chorus (Begluckt darf Nun) from Tanheusser, you haven't touched perfection, it's the most incredible piece of music ever written.
Iván
Edited by ivan_2068
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Progger
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1188
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Posted: February 27 2006 at 17:49 |
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IVAN, It ain't me, honest! Yes, I do not think of Genesis as the greatest prog band but I have always stated that I do actually like them. And 'Supper's Ready' is one of the greatest songs ever written!
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Snow Dog
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Posted: February 27 2006 at 17:13 |
Ah well...yet another Genasis overated thread. Still, it keeps Ivan busy. 
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MattNYR
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 27 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 124
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Posted: February 27 2006 at 17:09 |
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I have to say that Genesis is definitely not overrated. I could understand your argument if none of their albums were towards the top of the list of prog's best, but they are. Selling England By the Pound, Foxtrot, The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, and Nursery Cryme are all in the top 10. No other band even compares to that! If you want to talk overrated, you have to include Close to the Edge and Thick as a Brick, nothing by Genesis.
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Posted: February 27 2006 at 16:46 |
mission4prog wrote:
sorry, folks...i have to agree.
m4p |
on what? Genesis overrated, or German Opera better than Italian Opera.....
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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mission4prog
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 17 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 25
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Posted: February 27 2006 at 16:42 |
sorry, folks...i have to agree.
m4p
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"The hypocrites are slandering the sacred halls of Truth."
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micky
Special Collaborator
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Posted: February 27 2006 at 16:27 |
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hmmmm...
to bring something substanitive to this thread....
Ivan- other than language... what is the difference between German and
Italian Opera. Remember I'm just a cultureless American who likes
Opera.. but couldn't discuss it if my life depended on it.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Tony Fisher
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 30 2005
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 967
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Posted: February 27 2006 at 16:26 |
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Genesis are my 3rd favourite prog band after Camel and Mostly Autumn.
Please stop negative "overrated" threads. Let's get back to discussion which advances the cause of prog, not retards it.
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lunaticviolist
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 17 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 478
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Posted: February 27 2006 at 16:22 |
ivan_2068 wrote:
Lordofthe rings wrote:
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listen to me
i've been watching this site almost for 6/7 months
Are you Progger with another nick? The style is similar. If not:
Why you waited so long is Progger
started at least three threads saying the exact same
things?........................ I think I'll call you Progger II
and say............
i think GENESIS is highly overrated,
I think that it rains because the angels pee, and this doesn't make it real.
okay ' my favourite album is 'selling england by the pound', and the
song i like is "cinema show" , "dancing in the moonlit knight" and
"firth on fifth"; otherwise it is boaring,
Isn't boring a subjective term? I find
Italian Opera absiolutely boring, but there are millions who are
passionate for it. I love German Opera and less people like it.
"supper is ready" is super boaring;
Aren't you being SUPER SUBJECTIVE AND SUPER ARROGANT?
it is not epic
An epic is a song COMOPOSED USUALLY IN
MANY PARTS (SUBDIVIFDED), normally long (Over 15 minutes is
the standard) with lyrics referring to battles, mythological or
religious themes.
According to my dictionary Supper's Ready has each and every characteristic of an epic
As we say..it's yellow, walks funny, has feathers shouts cuak...then it's a duck.
it is like pieces together
Karn Evil is considered as an
epic, but it's played in separeted impressions (and the first
impresion in two parts):
Brain Salad Surgery
1. Jerusalem (2:44)
2. Toccata (7:23)
3. Still... You Turn Me On (2:53)
4. Benny The Bouncer (2:21)
5. Karn Evil 9 (1st Impression - Part 1) (8:44)
6. Karn Evil 9 (1st Impression - Part 2) (4:47)
7. Karn Evil 9 (2nd Impression) (7:07)
8. Karn Evil 9 (3rd Impression) (9:03)
Close to the Edge is also divided in parts (Also And you and I).
- Close To The Edge
- Solid Time Of Change
- Total Mass Retain
- I Get Up I Get Down
- Seasons Of Man
- And You And I
- Cord Of Life
- Eclipse
- The Preacher The Teacher
- Apocalypse
- Siberian Khatru
An epic is a story told in one song, usually stories have chapters, so the epic songs have their own form of chapters.
what the hell ; you cant compare that song with "close to the edge" that is masterpiece;
Why can't I compare it???? I'm free to
compare it with anything, as you're free to say Genesis is overrated
even when it is wrong.
phil collins is evil man, No, he's just a businessman
he f**ked the whole "genesis" up He, Banks and Rutherford participated in this decline of the IMO best band ever.
he is real criminal; Nope, he has not
commited any felony that I know. (I don't like his music or what he
turned Genesis into, but I won't accuse anybody without arguments).
BTW: If Genesis had Phil Collins (A
newcommer that took the band replacing an historical member and guided
them to pop), Yes had their Trevor Rabin, who did exactly the same with
Yes.
Iván |
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 Well, done, Ivan. I am not as
passionate about Genesis as many fans on this site, but I respect them
as one of the most important prog groups of the '70s. And I
listen to at least one Genesis album every week.
Calling Genesis overrated is overrated.
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My recent purchases: 
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horza
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 31 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2530
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Posted: February 27 2006 at 16:18 |
I love Genesis - saw them on the Duke tour - 'over-rated' threads tend to be divisive - for someone who has watched the site for so long you haven't exactly got us all thinking with this post
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Originally posted by darkshade:
Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.
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micky
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46828
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Posted: February 27 2006 at 16:17 |
hahahah another one huh...
LOTR- if you think they are.. be specific as to why. If you think
that their high place in the prog hierarchy is meerly a reflection of
todays adulation, when they MIGHT be considered a 2nd rung group
compared to the impact that several groups had on prog, like ELP, Tull,
Floyd, King Crimson, and Yes.... then come out and say it.
The Genesis fan-brigade, led by the one and only Ivan, would love to
discuss that with you.
edit... hahahha the red fonted Ivan has already arrived I see. 
Edited by micky
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Empathy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1864
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Posted: February 27 2006 at 16:17 |
Easy Livin wrote:
Hi LordOfTheRings.
You are free to voice your opinion of course.
You may find people more receptive to a positive thread about bands you do
like though. Negative threads tend to alienate people, especially
when they are the first post by a new forum
member.  |
Wow, what amazing tact! Now I see why you're a moderator!
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Pure Brilliance: 
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: February 27 2006 at 16:17 |
Lordofthe rings wrote:
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listen to me
i've been watching this site almost for 6/7 months
Are you Progger with another nick? The style is similar. If not:
Why you waited so long is Progger started at least three threads saying the exact same things?........................ I think I'll call you Progger II
and say............
i think GENESIS is highly overrated,
I think that it rains because the angels pee, and this doesn't make it real.
okay ' my favourite album is 'selling england by the pound', and the song i like is "cinema show" , "dancing in the moonlit knight" and "firth on fifth"; otherwise it is boaring,
Isn't boring a subjective term? I find Italian Opera absiolutely boring, but there are millions who are passionate for it. I love German Opera and less people like it.
"supper is ready" is super boaring;
Aren't you being SUPER SUBJECTIVE AND SUPER ARROGANT?
it is not epic
An epic is a song COMOPOSED USUALLY IN MANY PARTS (SUBDIVIFDED), normally long (Over 15 minutes is the standard) with lyrics referring to battles, mythological or religious themes.
According to my dictionary Supper's Ready has each and every characteristic of an epic
As we say..it's yellow, walks funny, has feathers shouts cuak...then it's a duck.
it is like pieces together
Karn Evil is considered as an epic, but it's played in separeted impressions (and the first impresion in two parts):
Brain Salad Surgery
1. Jerusalem (2:44)
2. Toccata (7:23)
3. Still... You Turn Me On (2:53)
4. Benny The Bouncer (2:21)
5. Karn Evil 9 (1st Impression - Part 1) (8:44)
6. Karn Evil 9 (1st Impression - Part 2) (4:47)
7. Karn Evil 9 (2nd Impression) (7:07)
8. Karn Evil 9 (3rd Impression) (9:03)
Close to the Edge is also divided in parts (Also And you and I).
- Close To The Edge
- Solid Time Of Change
- Total Mass Retain
- I Get Up I Get Down
- Seasons Of Man
- And You And I
- Cord Of Life
- Eclipse
- The Preacher The Teacher
- Apocalypse
- Siberian Khatru
An epic is a story told in one song, usually stories have chapters, so the epic songs have their own form of chapters.
what the hell ; you cant compare that song with "close to the edge" that is masterpiece;
Why can't I compare it???? I'm free to compare it with anything, as you're free to say Genesis is overrated even when it is wrong.
phil collins is evil man, No, he's just a businessman
he f**ked the whole "genesis" up He, Banks and Rutherford participated in this decline of the IMO best band ever.
he is real criminal; Nope, he has not commited any felony that I know. (I don't like his music or what he turned Genesis into, but I won't accuse anybody without arguments).
BTW: If Genesis had Phil Collins (A newcommer that took the band replacing an historical member and guided them to pop), Yes had their Trevor Rabin, who did exactly the same with Yes.
Iván |
Edited by ivan_2068
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TheProgtologist
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: May 23 2005
Location: Baltimore,Md US
Status: Offline
Points: 27802
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Posted: February 27 2006 at 16:07 |
Easy Livin wrote:
Hi LordOfTheRings.
You are free to voice your opinion of course.
You may find people more receptive to a positive thread about bands you do like though. Negative threads tend to alienate people, especially when they are the first post by a new forum member.
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Agreed.
Threads like these,especially created by a new member,are not a good way to start on the forum.
With that being said I know a lot of Genesis lovers(of which I count myself)are going to respond to this thread.
Please try to be civil.
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stan the man
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 504
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Posted: February 27 2006 at 16:03 |
LordOfTheRings wrote:
stan the man wrote:
"supper is ready" is super boaring;
suppers ready is my favorite song and overratted threads are overrated.
horay my 200th post
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i dont care about your 200th post
kidding
congr ats
but genesis is overrated
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thanks o well just a matter of opinion.
by the way lord of the rings is awsome 
Edited by stan the man
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true as a lobster in a pteredaktyl's underpants. 
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Pseud0
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 31 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 415
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Posted: February 27 2006 at 16:01 |
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wow
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
GENESIS is highly overrated,
