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progismylife View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2007 at 10:43
Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:

OK, I'll open it and see what comes out of it... You all, though, try to be propositive and don't expect we Admins to do all the work!Wink


It seems kazansky beat you to making a thread in the Improvements section.
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kazansky View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2007 at 10:44
yeah !
The devil we blame our atrocities on is really just each one of us.
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Kotro View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2007 at 11:13
Originally posted by kazansky kazansky wrote:

i won't call proto prog and prog related as a genre, it's more like a term that used in this site to point out why those bands are here regardless they aren't prog bands.

maybe it's a good idea to separate them into different top 100 list
 
Many people, including myself, agree that there isn't a "Prog Related" genre. However, in this site it gets the same treatment: it is up there in the frontpage along with Canterbury, Italian, Symphonic, &c. It has its own page like the other well defined genres, a "20-best" just like the rest, and from there arises the confusion.
 
It's not as simple as creating a separate rating list. It is more about creating a separate rating SYSTEM. Another source of greater confusion is the above-mentioned problem of the use of a formulaic rating system. While I believe a non-prog album CAN be an excellent adition to a Prog collection (just recently did it to Blackfield), it should be impossible for all to consider them "masterpieces" of a genre they don't belong to. But if a "prog-related" album reecks perfection in someone's view, like "Argus" does in my eyes, it's hard for you to rate it lower than you think it deserves. 
 
And now a story:
 
When I arrived at these Archives and Forum, a couple of years ago (when Art Rock was taking in most of current PR bands and there was even a "genre" called Progressive POP) I wondered if bands like Purple and Queen could be added in a special page of "honorary mentions" (mentions consisting more of albums, rather than bands) - which would be a lot diferent than the current status. Yet another problem with Prog-Related is the freedom of adition. I was one of many who pushed for Queen and Deep Purple to be added to the Archives, but only because of their first albums.
 
The problem lies in the completionists (which have their undeniable value) that add to the band's discography with a series of non-prog records. For instance, it is still my opinion that only the first four Deep Purple albums should be listed; an example of correct non-completionism is my own compatriot José Cid, who has a long recording career but has only two albums listed (I suppose the reason for this lies in the fact that not many completionists observe his case; and the one who, like me, notice the lack of albums, do nothing to complete it because they know they don't belong to this site).
 
I firmly believe that, in theory, the above-exposed solution of a separate page and rating system for "honorary mentions" could do the trick of adding to the info in the Archives, serve as recomendation, but not get entwined in the web of "real" (if one can consider it that way) Progressive Rock. But, like I say, it's all theory, I have absolutely no idea of the feasability of this "project". We could use some expert feedback on that.   
Bigger on the inside.
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MadcapLaughs84 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2007 at 11:18
Originally posted by Kotro Kotro wrote:

And now a story:

 

When I arrived at these Archives and Forum, a couple of years ago (when Art Rock was taking in most of current PR bands and there was even a "genre" called Progressive POP) I wondered if bands like Purple and Queen could be added in a special page of "honorary mentions" (mentions consisting more of albums, rather than bands) - which would be a lot diferent than the current status. Yet another problem with Prog-Related is the freedom of adition. I was one of many who pushed for Queen and Deep Purple to be added to the Archives, but only because of their first albums.



I agree with that idea, some of the bands as Prog Related and Proto-Prog just have 2 or 3 influential albums. That would be great and it would bring more credibility to the site.
    
    

Edited by MadcapLaughs84 - January 26 2007 at 11:21
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kazansky View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2007 at 11:19
that wasn't me who wrote that part, you quote the wrong person
The devil we blame our atrocities on is really just each one of us.
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MadcapLaughs84 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2007 at 11:20
LOL, sorry
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Easy Livin View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2007 at 11:21
Kotro touches on an important aspect here. Some bands are classified as prog-related because the majority of their output is not prog. They have however made one or more prog albums. Deep Purple and Wishbone Ash are two such bands which come to mind.
 
By excluding prog related bands from the chart, you potentially exclude prog albums.
 
Mike has long advocated classifying individual albums, and that is something M@x has as one of his intentions for the site.
 
As far as 5 star ratings are concerned, if an album is not prog, it should not be rated as a "Masterpiece of prog". But as they say, you can lead a horse to water.....
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MadcapLaughs84 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2007 at 11:26
Easy Livin made an excellent appointment here. If the album is not prog at all, you can't gve them a 5 stars rating.
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