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Topic ClosedCanterbury & Its Key Albums

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Dick Heath View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Canterbury & Its Key Albums
    Posted: February 22 2005 at 08:58

The new progression rock subsectioning here appears to be showing some limitations. As a tool and guide to newcomers, some of the the 10 key albums listed in the Canterbury section are most debatable. Where for instance, is Soft Machine, especially when a relatively obscure Italian prog album by Picchio Dal Pozzo heads that list??????????????? - the last Italian presence in Canterbury was in the 5th century AD? Further, the systems seems to suffer inflexibility: for instance why isn't Soft Machine registered in both Canterbury and the Fusion sections?

One of my several reasons for sign up to Progarchives early last year, was the indications then that  this website was becoming a valid source of information in all things prog. However, now the "10 key albums"  sections, at least, are not currently reflecting the usual checks and measures normally used to determine key albums. How can an open-minded, ready-to-learn newcomer  really identify 10 key albums of any of the sub-genre to listen to and get a good idea of the cross-section of the musical available there?

If I had discovered Prog Archives in the last week, and sampled what it had to offer through its webpages, I would have left laughing my head off at such strange listings and not come here again. Many of the  systems used here need some severe tweaking: the credibility is slipping.

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Joren View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2005 at 09:07

Max could make a larger list. Or include 1 album maximum per band...

That way there would be a Soft Machine album in the list again

I think the system works pretty well... the problem is just that, if you use ratings, you also use ratings from people who don't know much about the genre or dislike certain bands... that's probably why Soft Machine fell out of the list...

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maani View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2005 at 10:03

Dick:

Please make sure to PM Max about this.  It seems important enough for something to be done.

Peace.

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Sean Trane View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2005 at 10:08

I think that Picchio was in because there are bands that are musically similar to Canterbury outside Britain. Holland's Supersister , Belgium's Cos , Germany's Brainstorm (often cited as but not that much IMHO) and Italy's Picchio. But I am not Max or Ronny.

You are right about Soft Machine  being Canterbury and I had started an idfea about groups being into two sub-genre to fit better the description. Ex: Is Floyd's DSOTM to be considered a space/experimental album because the early Floyd albums were so?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2005 at 10:10
HA HA, Picchio dal Pozzio kinda blows away the
whole Canterbury scene. Thats great if you think you
want Canterbury why not blow it all off and go for the
French scene which really blows Canterbury away.
And why no moaning and crying and second
checking everything that is French. You cats are the
only ones I know of that go to the box and keep
covering the same pile of poop!

The english are always laying claim to Picchio
because it is dedicated to Robert Viatti. Thats kind of
like the US laying claim to the Rolling Stones
because of Muddy Waters.

You already have RIO which I am sure will be
dominated by english bands. You will fill up the
Fusion section with english bands, You have created
a special section for english fusion, Canterbury. And
when given the chance to offer France an area,
maybe Art Rock you dump everything english into it
with Rush!

Guess my days are numbered, cant seem to take
much more. Wish you would offer a more inviting
avenue to our European neighbors.

Edited by DallasBryan
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Garion81 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2005 at 11:44

 

Dallas,

 

I think the whole point is what was heard around the world and for the most part it was from England.  Maybe what we need is material of how prog started in other European countries and  Why were the record labels they signed too unable to get that music out internationally. England seemed to be the most successful.  You are one of very few Americans that I know of that has extensive knowledge of the Germans, Italians or France.  When did you start this excursion into that study?  The reason I ask is because growing up during the early 70's I can only tell you imports were expensive and non returnable to the record store.  I am sure some of the other European countries were represented but how do you take that chance?  I am learning of these groups and cultures here.  No this isn't perfect but it is better than many.  Sometimes I think you protest too much.  You could always start your own site if you feel that strongly about these issues.

Dick, I have found M@x to be most receptive if you make the right argument. I also think that you should PM him first before posting.  Just MHO

 



"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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DallasBryan View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2005 at 11:57
I started back in the mid to late 70s with European
progressive music. I was surrounded by musicians,
sound techs, roadies, producers and promoters. We
spent most weekends bringing out new stuff from all
over the world and exposing one another to it. Thats
where it started and my interests have come and
gone with time.
I protest because there is plenty of back patting
going on already and wish to expose others to the
various contributors out there. You may think
England as the major influence in progressive rock
but the US, France, Italy and Germany each influence
as much as England. Though many of those
cultures do not speak english and therefore go
unrepresented as a whole.
If the chains are loosed you will see a silent majority
step forth and open up a much more interesting
dialog and new interested members being more
diverse in their approach.

Edited by DallasBryan
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Garion81 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2005 at 12:08

Originally posted by DallasBryan DallasBryan wrote:

I started back in the mid to late 70s with European
progressive music. I was surrounded by musicians,
sound techs, roadies, producers and promoters. We
spent most weekends bringing out new stuff from all
over the world and exposing one another to it. Thats
where it started and my interests have come and
gone with time.
I protest because there is plenty of back patting
going on already and wish to expose others to the
various contributors out there. You may think
England as the major influence in progressive rock
but the US, France, Italy and Germany each influence
as much as England. Though many of those
cultures do not speak english and therefore go
unrepresented as a whole.

 

 

All my point was is exposure.  See what it took you to get informed?  I mean I was average high school kid back then.  Information was not so free.  You want us to be open to the fact that this music was influential. OK then write it out in a comprehensive time line showing excatly what your talking about.  If bands from France influenced the rest of the world then show it. At the same time why don't write about all the progressive bands in the US that never got signed during the early 70's.  (There were four in my little area alone in Southern California that were pretty damn good.)  

 You are right  I think that they didn't do outside of their native countries because of the language issue.  Which is why British bands were more successful in the states.

 



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oliverstoned View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2005 at 12:55
Bryan is right, picchio dal pozzo features among the best canterburyan efforts, even if it's italian.
A blend of Gong/you with Rock bottom influences...
And yes, France, Germany and Italy are as important as UK. (but Italy, despite the profusion of bands is a little less good than German school and France).
Any way, if prog is virtually totally european (except zappa),US psyche is the ancestor of prog...
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greenback View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2005 at 13:14
dick, i think you are too severe! a list 10 key albums is always arguable and if we asked you to make such a list, then many would have disagreed. the list is excellent, and yes soft machine - 3 could have been chosen. Personally, i would have chosen robert wyatt - rock bottom instead of 3 caravan albums. but you have to admit this list is a real good and representative one!

Edited by greenback
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Syzygy View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2005 at 13:43

[QUOTE=DallasBryan]
You already have RIO which I am sure will be
dominated by english bands. You will fill up the
Fusion section with english bands, You have created
a special section for english fusion, Canterbury. And
when given the chance to offer France an area,
maybe Art Rock you dump everything english into it
with Rush!

QUOTE]

DB - to find out how English dominated RIO was, go to www.ccutler.com and click on the bands link. There's an informative article there by the man who started the whole thing off.

As for the English 'claiming' Picchio Del Pazzio, who claimed them, and when? Specific quotes, please, with links if possible. 'Canterbury' is a style label, not a geographically specific location.

Just as there are musicians all over the world playing New Orleans jazz, few of whom were born on the same continent as New Orleans, so there are musicians all over the world playing Canterbury rock, from the USA (the Muffins) to Japan (Ain Soph).

'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom


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