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Easy Livin 
Special Collaborator
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Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
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 Posted: November 15 2007 at 15:02 |
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Let's keep this thread to a general discussion. Specific artists should each have their own threads in the "Suggest bands and artists" section. RF4, if you're agreeable, I'll move your post above to a new thread there.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
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Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: November 15 2007 at 15:15 |
I originally posted this in the Xover team thread last month...
 Dean is thinking out loud, don't take this too seriously - I'm not even sure it even counts as my opinion on the subject, it's just random musings... wrote:
I think PR could be made to look a lot less "Related to Prog" and more "Prog Related" if more of the solo efforts of Prog Artists were moved elsewhere.
The list is quite an impressive line-up: Jon Anderson, Syd Barrett, Jeff Beck, David Gilmour, Roger Hodgson, Greg Lake, Geddy Lee, Jon Lord, Phil Manzanera & 801, Nick Mason, Mauro Pagani, Alan Parsons & Eric Woolfson, Mike Rutherford, Peter Sinfield, Steve Vai, John Wetton, (Alan) White and Rick Wright.
We already have a similar list of their compatriots in Xover (Tony Banks, Keef Emerson, Peter Gabriel, Dave Greenslade, Justin Hayward & John Lodge, Steve Howe, Carl Palmer, Jordan Rudess, Steve Walsh, Roger Waters and Alan White (again!))
The real issue with these artists is not whether their solo output are prog or not, but the fact that they are significant figures in the world of prog and therefore must be listed in the PA regardless. Having them in PR clouds the issue of what PR is about and makes the sub look top-heavy.
Add to that the what-shall-we-do-with-thems of Jean Michelle Jarre & Vangelis, the Prog "Supergroups" that weren't quite prog of APP, Asia & GTR and the actual blood-relatives of Prog artists like Nikki Squire (Esquire) and Oliver Wakeman. Then PR would probably look a little more manageable.  |
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What?
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
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Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66092
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Posted: November 15 2007 at 15:27 |
Easy Livin wrote:
Let's keep this thread to a general discussion. Specific artists should each have their own threads in the "Suggest bands and artists" section. RF4, if you're agreeable, I'll move your post above to a new thread there. |
I am agreeable with that.
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
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Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66092
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Posted: November 15 2007 at 15:28 |
darqdean wrote:
I originally posted this in the Xover team thread last month...
Dean is thinking out loud, don't take this too seriously - I'm not even sure it even counts as my opinion on the subject, it's just random musings... wrote:
I think PR could be made to look a lot less "Related to Prog" and more "Prog Related" if more of the solo efforts of Prog Artists were moved elsewhere.
The list is quite an impressive line-up: Jon Anderson, Syd Barrett, Jeff Beck, David Gilmour, Roger Hodgson, Greg Lake, Geddy Lee, Jon Lord, Phil Manzanera & 801, Nick Mason, Mauro Pagani, Alan Parsons & Eric Woolfson, Mike Rutherford, Peter Sinfield, Steve Vai, John Wetton, (Alan) White and Rick Wright.
We already have a similar list of their compatriots in Xover (Tony Banks, Keef Emerson, Peter Gabriel, Dave Greenslade, Justin Hayward & John Lodge, Steve Howe, Carl Palmer, Jordan Rudess, Steve Walsh, Roger Waters and Alan White (again!))
The real issue with these artists is not whether their solo output are prog or not, but the fact that they are significant figures in the world of prog and therefore must be listed in the PA regardless. Having them in PR clouds the issue of what PR is about and makes the sub look top-heavy.
Add to that the what-shall-we-do-with-thems of Jean Michelle Jarre & Vangelis, the Prog "Supergroups" that weren't quite prog of APP, Asia & GTR and the actual blood-relatives of Prog artists like Nikki Squire (Esquire) and Oliver Wakeman. Then PR would probably look a little more manageable. |
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I am agreeable with that too. Boy am I easy!!!! 
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: November 15 2007 at 17:05 |
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Cheers RF, post moved.
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: November 15 2007 at 18:14 |
I had some time to look at this interesting thread, one of the posts that caught my attention was about Philippe his taste: he has added lots of bands to this site that has absolutely no connection with the element rock but his added bands are adventurous, scouting the borders between music and noise, are his added bands more prog-related than bands like The Tubes, The Stranglers, Journey or Angel? I don't think so, these are all bands with a strong rock element and lots of progressive ideas but due to the subjective and inconsequent additions policy here on Prog Archives we can enjoy many very experimental sounding bands that make minimal or electronic music that is beyond rock music, does this kind of music matches more with the elements progressive and rock music than bands like The Tubes, The Stranglers, Journey or Angel? To me it sounds quite snobbish and way too subjective  !
For example: imagine that you want to add an interesting band that rocks and has interesting progressive ideas, it is rejected by 'the teams' and the next day an electronic band has been added to this site that produces only some synthesizer waves and ethnic sounds, this is reality here on Prog Archives and I have strong objections towards this kind of addition-policy!
Edited by erik neuteboom - November 15 2007 at 18:34
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
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Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: November 16 2007 at 07:23 |
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It's all about opinions. Certainly many eyebrows would be raised if the likes of The Tubes or The Starnglers were added here.
Philippe knows the boundaries he has to work to and adheres to them very well. I know for a fact that he has rejected bands that he likes and feels are very progressive and of interest to visitors here, but do not meet the criteria for Prog Rock.
In my humble opinion I do not believe that The Tubes or The Stranglers meet the criteria for acceptance. If the Angel you mention is the same one that I remember, well..
As for Journey, we all know their history, and indeed there was a progressive flavour to their earliest albums.
I do wonder at what benefits there are to be gained from adding any of these bands though. The chances of many Stranglers fans or Tubes fans being interested in Prog Rock seem remote to me. Just my opinion though.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: November 16 2007 at 07:33 |
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^ curious Tony. I was at the Peter Gabriel Knebworth gig where the Tubes "headlined" (PG did not wish to follow them and move himself down the bill) and the Canterbury Fayre where the Stranglers headlined on the weekend that also included Mostly Autum, Space Ritual, Authur's Lee and Brown, Kevin Ayres, Fish and the Ozric Tentacles. On both occasions neither band were "out of place" and their fans appeared to be enjoying the old prog acts too.
Edited by darqdean - November 16 2007 at 07:34
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What?
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Atkingani
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: October 21 2005
Location: Terra Brasilis
Status: Offline
Points: 12288
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Posted: November 16 2007 at 07:43 |
rushfan4 wrote:
darqdean wrote:
I originally posted this in the Xover team thread last month...
Dean is thinking out loud, don't take this too seriously - I'm not even sure it even counts as my opinion on the subject, it's just random musings... wrote:
I think PR could be made to look a lot less "Related to Prog" and more "Prog Related" if more of the solo efforts of Prog Artists were moved elsewhere.
The list is quite an impressive line-up: Jon Anderson, Syd Barrett, Jeff Beck, David Gilmour, Roger Hodgson, Greg Lake, Geddy Lee, Jon Lord, Phil Manzanera & 801, Nick Mason, Mauro Pagani, Alan Parsons & Eric Woolfson, Mike Rutherford, Peter Sinfield, Steve Vai, John Wetton, (Alan) White and Rick Wright.
We already have a similar list of their compatriots in Xover (Tony Banks, Keef Emerson, Peter Gabriel, Dave Greenslade, Justin Hayward & John Lodge, Steve Howe, Carl Palmer, Jordan Rudess, Steve Walsh, Roger Waters and Alan White (again!))
The real issue with these artists is not whether their solo output are prog or not, but the fact that they are significant figures in the world of prog and therefore must be listed in the PA regardless. Having them in PR clouds the issue of what PR is about and makes the sub look top-heavy.
Add to that the what-shall-we-do-with-thems of Jean Michelle Jarre & Vangelis, the Prog "Supergroups" that weren't quite prog of APP, Asia & GTR and the actual blood-relatives of Prog artists like Nikki Squire (Esquire) and Oliver Wakeman. Then PR would probably look a little more manageable. |
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I am agreeable with that too. Boy am I easy!!!! |
As I wrote elsewhere (but no one noticed  ), many acts are there in the Related waiting for a second or a third thought about their "progressiveness".
It won't hurt if a team re-evaluates a band and decides they fit its parameters and then the team may manage with the Admin Team to move the band to a prog genre.
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Guigo
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: November 16 2007 at 07:49 |
^ Sorry Guigo, I did not mean to ignore your post,  , we (Xover) had noticed and have taken the comment onboard. We will be producing another list, but are getting a little behind on new additions and updating missing Bio's at the moment so are concentrating on that for the time being.
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What?
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Atkingani
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: October 21 2005
Location: Terra Brasilis
Status: Offline
Points: 12288
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Posted: November 16 2007 at 15:22 |
darqdean wrote:
^ Sorry Guigo, I did not mean to ignore your post,, we (Xover) had noticed and have taken the comment onboard. We will be producing another list, but are getting a little behind on new additions and updating missing Bio's at the moment so are concentrating on that for the time being. |
Fine! 
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Guigo
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aapatsos
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 11 2005
Location: Manchester, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 9226
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Posted: November 17 2007 at 20:52 |
Tony R wrote:
Repeat after me every one:
Prog ROCK
Prog ROCK
ad inf...
since when was classical music Rock music?
This site is getting crazier and crazier...
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this is an issue that is growing on me since the acceptance of various bands from non-rock or 'non-rock related'  categories Prog-related is controversial as a title and can't represent a genre IMO but could be included easily under prog-rock oh, not to forget... Prog ROCK Prog ROCK Prog ROCK Prog ROCK... 
Edited by aapatsos - November 17 2007 at 20:52
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
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Posted: November 18 2007 at 17:52 |
Tony R wrote:
It's all about opinions. Certainly many eyebrows would be raised if the likes of The Tubes or The Starnglers were added here.
Philippe knows the boundaries he has to work to and adheres to them very well. I know for a fact that he has rejected bands that he likes and feels are very progressive and of interest to visitors here, but do not meet the criteria for Prog Rock.
In my humble opinion I do not believe that The Tubes or The Stranglers meet the criteria for acceptance. If the Angel you mention is the same one that I remember, well..
As for Journey, we all know their history, and indeed there was a progressive flavour to their earliest albums.
I do wonder at what benefits there are to be gained from adding any of these bands though. The chances of many Stranglers fans or Tubes fans being interested in Prog Rock seem remote to me. Just my opinion though.
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...but there may be many Prog fans interested in the Stranglers - not sure about the Tubes, I don't know their back catalogue well enough - but the Stranglers and their Doors-related brand of punk that evolved into something altogether more sophisticated are surely a band any progger would want to hear.
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: November 18 2007 at 18:09 |
Certif1ed wrote:
Tony R wrote:
It's all about opinions. Certainly many eyebrows would be raised if the likes of The Tubes or The Starnglers were added here.
Philippe knows the boundaries he has to work to and adheres to them very well. I know for a fact that he has rejected bands that he likes and feels are very progressive and of interest to visitors here, but do not meet the criteria for Prog Rock.
In my humble opinion I do not believe that The Tubes or The Stranglers meet the criteria for acceptance. If the Angel you mention is the same one that I remember, well..
As for Journey, we all know their history, and indeed there was a progressive flavour to their earliest albums.
I do wonder at what benefits there are to be gained from adding any of these bands though. The chances of many Stranglers fans or Tubes fans being interested in Prog Rock seem remote to me. Just my opinion though.
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...but there may be many Prog fans interested in the Stranglers - not sure about the Tubes, I don't know their back catalogue well enough - but the Stranglers and their Doors-related brand of punk that evolved into something altogether more sophisticated are surely a band any progger would want to hear. |
Peaches is virtually a Prog Anthem...
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philippe
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 14 2004
Location: noosphere
Status: Offline
Points: 3597
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Posted: November 18 2007 at 18:28 |
erik neuteboom wrote:
I had some time to look at this interesting thread, one of the posts that caught my attention was about Philippe his taste: he has added lots of bands to this site that has absolutely no connection with the element rock but his added bands are adventurous, scouting the borders between music and noise, are his added bands more prog-related than bands like The Tubes, The Stranglers, Journey or Angel? I don't think so, these are all bands with a strong rock element and lots of progressive ideas but due to the subjective and inconsequent additions policy here on Prog Archives we can enjoy many very experimental sounding bands that make minimal or electronic music that is beyond rock music, does this kind of music matches more with the elements progressive and rock music than bands like The Tubes, The Stranglers, Journey or Angel? To me it sounds quite snobbish and way too subjective !
For example: imagine that you want to add an interesting band that rocks and has interesting progressive ideas, it is rejected by 'the teams' and the next day an electronic band has been added to this site that produces only some synthesizer waves and ethnic sounds, this is reality here on Prog Archives and I have strong objections towards this kind of addition-policy! |
This is not snobbish but it's clear that I hate mediocrity and conformism. About your comment I would like to remind you the classical flamenco artists you added in the archives. These artists (Diego de Moron, Juan Martin...) absolutely not explore the progressive territories (I know what I say, my brother is a flamenco guitar player and performs some Juan Martin...). As it was said previously I always managed to seperate my personal favourites artists (that are beyond progressive rock) from the ones I include in the progressive electronic subgenre...you sould have a deeper view on the bands mentionned, none of them belong to classical avant garde. Moreover many of them include rock instrumentation and the primitive energy of this music.
Edited by philippe - November 18 2007 at 18:48
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
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Posted: November 19 2007 at 07:43 |
Tony R wrote:
Certif1ed wrote:
Tony R wrote:
It's all about opinions. Certainly many eyebrows would be raised if the likes of The Tubes or The Starnglers were added here.
Philippe knows the boundaries he has to work to and adheres to them very well. I know for a fact that he has rejected bands that he likes and feels are very progressive and of interest to visitors here, but do not meet the criteria for Prog Rock.
In my humble opinion I do not believe that The Tubes or The Stranglers meet the criteria for acceptance. If the Angel you mention is the same one that I remember, well..
As for Journey, we all know their history, and indeed there was a progressive flavour to their earliest albums.
I do wonder at what benefits there are to be gained from adding any of these bands though. The chances of many Stranglers fans or Tubes fans being interested in Prog Rock seem remote to me. Just my opinion though.
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...but there may be many Prog fans interested in the Stranglers - not sure about the Tubes, I don't know their back catalogue well enough - but the Stranglers and their Doors-related brand of punk that evolved into something altogether more sophisticated are surely a band any progger would want to hear. |
Peaches is virtually a Prog Anthem...
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You mean, like "Spirit of Radio", "Misunderstanding" and "Owner of a Lonely Heart" - that sort of thing?
You're making the basic mistake of judging the band on a hit single you've heard.
Granted, the Stranglers had many hits, like "No More Heroes", "Hanging Around", "Get a Grip on Yourself", "Duchess", "Golden Brown", etc - but all have proggy elements that really aren't a million miles away from either The Doors or Marillion.
They were only a "punk" band (for want of a better word - it only describes their attitude, not their music) for a few years. Aural Sculpture is a clear case of a progression - even "Golden Brown" is in 13/4.
If you don't know their entire back catalogue, it will surprise you immensely.
Edited by Certif1ed - November 19 2007 at 07:48
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Peter
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Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: November 20 2007 at 22:53 |
 Related?
That would be J___n's last date.... 
Where IS our favourite Dutch youth lately, anyway?
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Prog Related.... just ...what is 'related'
