Forum Home Forum Home > Other music related lounges > General Music Discussions
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - is rock 'n' roll dying, or is it already dead?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic Closedis rock 'n' roll dying, or is it already dead?
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 234
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
sherrynoland View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 02 2010
Location: Las Vegas
Status: Offline
Points: 377 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2013 at 05:39
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Originally posted by sherrynoland sherrynoland wrote:

People complain about the shallowness of pop music today


Rock was big in the 60s and 70s. Never again will it be that big. There are still great rock bands, it's just they rarely make big money. Just let it go.

True artists would be glad to just MAKE A LIVING.  Nobody's asking to make BIG MONEY.  Just a living to survive and go on making music, without being dependent on others would be nice.
https://www.facebook.com/FlashFeaturingRayBennettColinCarter
Back to Top
chopper View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20056 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2013 at 06:49
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Well I used to go and watch bands at my local Art Centre on a regular basis (and this included Wishbone Ash, Mountain, Colosseum , Carl Palmer , Focus etc) with an audience of around 100-150 people (that is the rough capacity). However around 5 years ago the last gig I saw there was Steve Howe .. and it wasn't a sell out. The writing was on the wall. I think the economic downturn has a had a massive impact on classic bands although the very biggest will still get by. Be interesting to see how Yes get on next year without Anderson and Wakeman.

BTW does anyone know whether The High Voltage Festival has bit the dust for good?
Los Endos, a Genesis tribute band, recently drew 300 people to a theatre near me in Essex on a rainy Monday night, so there is a market for prog, even in Essex.
 
Here's hoping High Voltage returns next year,
Back to Top
presdoug View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8849 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2013 at 06:59
As far as Flash goes, i love their early sound, especially the debut, and In The Can, which have stood the test of time for me quite well.
        As far as live concerts, prog or otherwise, i don't go to them anymore because i have permanent tinnitus in both ears.
       Rightly, or wrongly, (many would think wrongly!) I don't have much enthusiasm for the current music scene in terms of new releases. I'm so busy with the seventies, i guess.
       I have not heard the new Flash yet.
    
Back to Top
thellama73 View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2013 at 08:40
Originally posted by sherrynoland sherrynoland wrote:

Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Originally posted by sherrynoland sherrynoland wrote:

People complain about the shallowness of pop music today


Rock was big in the 60s and 70s. Never again will it be that big. There are still great rock bands, it's just they rarely make big money. Just let it go.

True artists would be glad to just MAKE A LIVING.  Nobody's asking to make BIG MONEY.  Just a living to survive and go on making music, without being dependent on others would be nice.


How do you make a living from music without being dependent on others? You have to depend on others to buy your records and to buy tickets to your concerts don't you?
Back to Top
Catcher10 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 18042 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2013 at 09:05
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by sherrynoland sherrynoland wrote:

Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Originally posted by sherrynoland sherrynoland wrote:

People complain about the shallowness of pop music today


Rock was big in the 60s and 70s. Never again will it be that big. There are still great rock bands, it's just they rarely make big money. Just let it go.

True artists would be glad to just MAKE A LIVING.  Nobody's asking to make BIG MONEY.  Just a living to survive and go on making music, without being dependent on others would be nice.


How do you make a living from music without being dependent on others? You have to depend on others to buy your records and to buy tickets to your concerts don't you?
 
Very true.....bands still need some assemblance of a "fan base" to make a couple bucks. I am probably wrong, but I remember reading about I think Echolyn, these guys have other FT jobs, I thinks some as teachers.....and the band thing is just something they enjoy doing.
What I like is that they are making music because they want to, not because they have to, to put food on the table for their families.....I think this is where some of the bad feelings come from, when bands don't make enough money, they can get mad. In today's world if they want to make that kind of money they need to record rap/hip hop or simple plain jane pop music, something that will get played on the FM and maybe get them on a music show, TV show or awards show.
Back to Top
Epignosis View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32581 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2013 at 09:18
Originally posted by sherrynoland sherrynoland wrote:

I'd also like to know from anyone who's willing to say, how many CDs and concert tickets did you purchase in the last year?


I bought one (three if you count the people who went with me).  I went to see Kansas at the state fair.  That's it.

I don't know how many albums I bought.  Not as many as I used to, I know that much.


Originally posted by sherrynoland sherrynoland wrote:

I ask partly because I'm really very surprised at the lack of response here to the news I've been posting about the return of prog pioneers Flash.  They were a seminal prog band and one of few to actually have charted with both an album and a single.  Their albums have been reissued over the years numerous times and their singles included on many compilations celebrating that era.  They've always enjoyed critical acclaim and airplay all over the world for their music including their new CD, even in these tough days in the music industry.  And some of the Flash songs on youtube have tens of thousands of views.

These guys are gold.,,the real thing beyond dispute.  They are veterans, rich with history and experience, contemporaries and collaborators with many of the musicians lionized today from that era.  They were at the heart of, and instrumental to the birth of the music we all say we love.

When I told Flash lead guitarist/bassist/singer/writer, Ray Bennett, that Wishbone Ash (who Flash toured with) and Nektar drew only 50 people at a venue last week, he wondered whether there is the same kind of enthusiasm for real quality rock music today that there was in the 60's and 70's when they were coming of age and rock 'n' roll was still so new?  People were hungry for it and turned out en mass to hear it.  

People complain about the shallowness of pop music today, but when something better is offered, who supports it?  It can't survive without us.



Have you checked out the latest Epignosis album?  Smile
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
Back to Top
rushfan4 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66787 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2013 at 09:27
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by sherrynoland sherrynoland wrote:

I'd also like to know from anyone who's willing to say, how many CDs and concert tickets did you purchase in the last year?


I bought one (three if you count the people who went with me).  I went to see Kansas at the state fair.  That's it.

I don't know how many albums I bought.  Not as many as I used to, I know that much.


Originally posted by sherrynoland sherrynoland wrote:

I ask partly because I'm really very surprised at the lack of response here to the news I've been posting about the return of prog pioneers Flash.  They were a seminal prog band and one of few to actually have charted with both an album and a single.  Their albums have been reissued over the years numerous times and their singles included on many compilations celebrating that era.  They've always enjoyed critical acclaim and airplay all over the world for their music including their new CD, even in these tough days in the music industry.  And some of the Flash songs on youtube have tens of thousands of views.

These guys are gold.,,the real thing beyond dispute.  They are veterans, rich with history and experience, contemporaries and collaborators with many of the musicians lionized today from that era.  They were at the heart of, and instrumental to the birth of the music we all say we love.

When I told Flash lead guitarist/bassist/singer/writer, Ray Bennett, that Wishbone Ash (who Flash toured with) and Nektar drew only 50 people at a venue last week, he wondered whether there is the same kind of enthusiasm for real quality rock music today that there was in the 60's and 70's when they were coming of age and rock 'n' roll was still so new?  People were hungry for it and turned out en mass to hear it.  

People complain about the shallowness of pop music today, but when something better is offered, who supports it?  It can't survive without us.



Have you checked out the latest Epignosis album?  Smile
The question on everyone's mind is when will there be the next Epignosis album. Wink


Edited by rushfan4 - July 02 2013 at 09:27
Back to Top
Epignosis View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32581 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2013 at 09:41
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:


The question on everyone's mind is when will there be the next Epignosis album. Wink


I think I'll have it done this summer.


Edited by Epignosis - July 02 2013 at 09:42
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
Back to Top
Stool Man View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 30 2007
Location: Anti-Cool (anag
Status: Offline
Points: 2689 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2013 at 10:39
"is rock 'n' roll dying or dead?" No of course not.

Here's some evidence, from a few weeks ago:


rotten hound of the burnie crew
Back to Top
dr wu23 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20700 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2013 at 10:45
I don't know why some one would think rock is dying with all the bands out there making a decent living from it but am I the only one who thinks that  'sherry' is promoting Flash a little too fervently...?
 
Confused
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
Back to Top
Catcher10 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 18042 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2013 at 10:59
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:


The question on everyone's mind is when will there be the next Epignosis album. Wink


I think I'll have it done this summer.
 
It is this summer....hurry up already!
Big smile
Back to Top
Epignosis View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32581 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2013 at 16:07
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:


The question on everyone's mind is when will there be the next Epignosis album. Wink


I think I'll have it done this summer.
 
It is this summer....hurry up already!
Big smile


I'm a rock star who sunlights as an English teacher.  Cool LOL
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
Back to Top
Ambient Hurricanes View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 25 2011
Location: internet
Status: Offline
Points: 2549 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2013 at 17:10
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:


The question on everyone's mind is when will there be the next Epignosis album. Wink


I think I'll have it done this summer.


Woohoo!
I love dogs, I've always loved dogs
Back to Top
Chris S View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2013 at 17:23
Originally posted by sherrynoland sherrynoland wrote:

You have to wonder which came first, the chicken or the egg—the fashion or the corporate force-fed industry.  The kids listen to what the industry "creates" and allows them to hear these days.  

The most vital stuff is probably grass roots, most of which doesn't get heard outside our own community.  Music lovers in the biz used to have the power and the desire to pluck a band from obscurity, and lose money until they took off.  

Today, they hire people who look/play/dance/sing the way they want them to.  Puppet masters. That's what we call "mainstream" and that's where all the money is, because kids WILL buy music and they know it.  But they also know they can control what's offered, and they do.  That's mainstream today.  It used to be different, and I trust it will be again.  We'll see.  

I think, as with everything else, humanity is evolving towards more PERSONAL responsibility.  Now that we can find and share music so easily, and also steal it, we have to decide one person at a time whether will, or not.


I have to disagree when you take a swipe at kids. Sure there will always be an element of commercialism that reeks and the recent Idol/The Voice type TV formats captures that commercialism but I think you may well be being derogatory at kids in general. In fact the kids I know and talk to are extremely well informed and believe it or not due to the digital age they have been born into have a vast knowledge of music today crossing a wide array of genres..." Rock N Roll" too if we like that tag.

Music is more alive today than it ever was. Whether the category is indie/alt/prog/rock/RnB/Rap or Pop etc etc the amount of excellent artists out there is unbelievable and you would need a couple of lifetimes to discover it all. I recently watched a Van Morrison interview on You Tube following his recent Hollywood Bowl " Astral Weeks" performance a few years back and I watched in disbelief as he stated that he does not listen to any new music these days cos it has all been done already. Now I am a big admirer of VM but was saddened that he, with all his incredible experience and wisdom, could state such a flawed comment. Rock n Roll will never die and there is tons of good new music out there.

Regarding Flash or Wishbone Ash, come on lets face it noone has the right to want these guys to hang up their guitar strings but after more than 40 years of performing you would need to have a small cult following in the main to keep money rolling in. Hence why so many bands have taken to the road again in recent years to keep earning some well earned bucks and sure feed their passion at the same time.

Anyways I am rambling a bit but please do not underestimate kids and what music they like cos you may well be surprised what is out there beyond prog and rock n Roll
<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
Back to Top
Dayvenkirq View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2013 at 18:33
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

I don't know why some one would think rock is dying with all the bands out there making a decent living from it but am I the only one who thinks that  'sherry' is promoting Flash a little too fervently...?
 
Confused
Define "death". Then define "death of rock-n'-roll".

In other news, ... there's this.
Back to Top
Epignosis View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32581 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2013 at 19:22
Ms Noland, I hope I didn't offend you in my brief response.  I was, however, trying to imply something fuller, and if you don't mind, I'll expand on it.

That no one seems interested in Flash's latest isn't indicative that rock and roll is perishing.  Now I'm not really in the music business, mind you.  I've played in several bands, taught guitar for years, and I do make an album from time to time.  In four years I've made about $350 on my recordings.  And you know what?  That thought encourages me.  It means there are people out there who will give me money for my music (and I once played a gig for beer- I'm sure they wish they would have just given me money...they might have come out cheaper).  The point is that you cannot force people to listen to something, let alone buy it.  The fact that Flash was so big in the 70s (I don't know- I wasn't there) and yet somehow now are not isn't the knell of rock music; instead, it's the sound of newer prog rock bands who are kicking ass with amazing material people go out of their way to hear.

And that's just 2012.

The day you complain about not being able to support yourself as a musician is the very day you need to get a job.

Flash has been around a lot longer than I have, is better known than me, and  yet there is now more interest in this thread in my music than there was in Flash's.  That was not my intention, but there's a few reasons for that happening.  First, I am a part of this community.  I didn't join this site to sell music.  I joined because I share an interest with these people.  I've been here since 2007, I write reviews, I help add bands, and I've made friends I may never see face to face.  I'm here because I like being here.  Second, "Here's what's better than pop music" isn't going to snag contemporary prog lovers.  We don't care about what's better than pop- because we already know.  The "kids" that you want don't listen to what the "industry" creates (we don't even know what that industry is because we never cared much about it).  If getting kids who care about the industry is what you want, then you're barking up the wrong tree.

My suggestion is that Flash should listen to some of the newer bands around and interact with them.  Instead of this:

Originally posted by sherrynoland sherrynoland wrote:

These guys are gold.,,the real thing beyond dispute.  They are veterans, rich with history and experience, contemporaries and collaborators with many of the musicians lionized today from that era.  They were at the heart of, and instrumental to the birth of the music we all say we love.



Imagine what it would be like for an up-and-coming prog band to have their record bought by Ray Bennett of Flash. 

"Holy crap, the bassist from Flash heard our album and says it's good stuff!"

Or perhaps, "Ray Bennett heard our album.  He says we have potential, but that we should limit the guitar solos to where they make sense."

Get to know people.  Even if you don't sell albums, you may make some new friends.

Edited by Epignosis - July 02 2013 at 19:23
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
Back to Top
dr wu23 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20700 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2013 at 23:17
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

I don't know why some one would think rock is dying with all the bands out there making a decent living from it but am I the only one who thinks that  'sherry' is promoting Flash a little too fervently...?
 
Confused
Define "death". Then define "death of rock-n'-roll".

In other news, ... there's this.
Heh...ask Sherry that since she started the thread.....but I posted Neil Young's answer to that on the other thread you linked to.
Smile
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
Back to Top
Catcher10 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 18042 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2013 at 09:33
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:


The question on everyone's mind is when will there be the next Epignosis album. Wink


I think I'll have it done this summer.
 
It is this summer....hurry up already!
Big smile


I'm a rock star who sunlights as an English teacher.  Cool LOL
 
Mr Skeletor.....I understand, keep us posted on the new material, I know it will be good stuff!
 
Regards
Back to Top
Catcher10 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 18042 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2013 at 09:52
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Ms Noland, I hope I didn't offend you in my brief response.  I was, however, trying to imply something fuller, and if you don't mind, I'll expand on it.

That no one seems interested in Flash's latest isn't indicative that rock and roll is perishing.  Now I'm not really in the music business, mind you.  I've played in several bands, taught guitar for years, and I do make an album from time to time.  In four years I've made about $350 on my recordings.  And you know what?  That thought encourages me.  It means there are people out there who will give me money for my music (and I once played a gig for beer- I'm sure they wish they would have just given me money...they might have come out cheaper).  The point is that you cannot force people to listen to something, let alone buy it.  The fact that Flash was so big in the 70s (I don't know- I wasn't there) and yet somehow now are not isn't the knell of rock music; instead, it's the sound of newer prog rock bands who are kicking ass with amazing material people go out of their way to hear.

And that's just 2012.

The day you complain about not being able to support yourself as a musician is the very day you need to get a job.

Flash has been around a lot longer than I have, is better known than me, and  yet there is now more interest in this thread in my music than there was in Flash's.  That was not my intention, but there's a few reasons for that happening.  First, I am a part of this community.  I didn't join this site to sell music.  I joined because I share an interest with these people.  I've been here since 2007, I write reviews, I help add bands, and I've made friends I may never see face to face.  I'm here because I like being here.  Second, "Here's what's better than pop music" isn't going to snag contemporary prog lovers.  We don't care about what's better than pop- because we already know.  The "kids" that you want don't listen to what the "industry" creates (we don't even know what that industry is because we never cared much about it).  If getting kids who care about the industry is what you want, then you're barking up the wrong tree.

My suggestion is that Flash should listen to some of the newer bands around and interact with them.  Instead of this:

Originally posted by sherrynoland sherrynoland wrote:

These guys are gold.,,the real thing beyond dispute.  They are veterans, rich with history and experience, contemporaries and collaborators with many of the musicians lionized today from that era.  They were at the heart of, and instrumental to the birth of the music we all say we love.



Imagine what it would be like for an up-and-coming prog band to have their record bought by Ray Bennett of Flash. 

"Holy crap, the bassist from Flash heard our album and says it's good stuff!"

Or perhaps, "Ray Bennett heard our album.  He says we have potential, but that we should limit the guitar solos to where they make sense."

Get to know people.  Even if you don't sell albums, you may make some new friends.
 
ClapClapClap
 
Great post.....as an example I recall when District 97 first began, they joined PA and made some posts about their music and upcoming album. People here encouraged them and looked forward to their release, it was met with pretty good reviews, the second album also was good with good reviews too.
The band also enjoyed support from the likes of John Wetton and they have even done some shows together playing D97 material and King Crimson stuff.....That probably exposed a lot of these "kids" to King Crimson, which is a good thing.
 
 
 
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 234

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.203 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.