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Topic ClosedRap Music's Place In Prog

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2009 at 15:46
Killah Priest is another interesting rapper, very deep and thoughtful. Gets lyrically proggish at times in my opinion, though his beats tend to be traditional hip-hop. Check out the cover to his new album Elizabeth- looks far more like a prog release than a rap one.
 


Edited by Textbook - October 10 2009 at 15:46
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2009 at 14:46
Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

But is this just a prog ROCK place? I thought there was quite a bit of stuff around here that doesn't particularly rock.
 
 
Therein lies the problem ... we tend to "define" things in terms of "progrock" ... and that is the greatest issue of it all ... heck ... a lot of Peter Hammill fits in prog folk ... but he is prog on account of a few songs? And no one here will even discuss one of the best poets on record ... Roy Harper ... so progressive he told PF to take a flying leap ... as he would not be allowed to be free and do what he wished to do ...  which, in the end, is what "prog" is all about.
 
I stick by the fact that a lot of these definitions should be dropped as stupid ... if rock can be progressive so can everything else from the tomatoes in your kitchen to the worst rap out there! But, in an elitist group, I'm not sure that this definition is going to gain weight ... check out other threads where someone is discussing prog songs (!!!) and then prog everything you can think of ... but ... ohh my gawd ... how dare you think rap can be mentioned?
 
This bulletin board is NOT a "rock" place ... it is a MUSIC place ... and the tastes and people here have proven that many times over, specially the admins and folks in charge. Rap just happens to be ... not one of our favorites, but heck ... they haven't even heard rap in 1968 ... Gil Scott Heron and the Last Poets ... heck ... it was even in a movie ... Performance ... with Mick Jagger   ... who actually did some things with the Stones with rap in mind ... but we will never discuss that!  Heck .. Mick is probably one of the worst singers ever ... and he is one of the best rappers ever ... 


Edited by moshkito - October 10 2009 at 15:16
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2009 at 11:43
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Yeah, guess you're right, *frinspar*.  Even the collaboration with Faust (one of the big names of Krautrock, and a favoured band by me) isn't really structurally progressive, I think.

Still, this album should interest a number here:


3.42 | 4 ratings
FAUST vs. DÄLEK - Derbe Respect, Alder
2004

Maybe we'll have to wait until "Rap in Opposition" catches fire.

I know I've heard some pretty experimental bands that made rap with fairly unusual structures and instrumentation such as "live" violins and cello (I don't really like rap to be honest, but I've been looking to find some "chamber rap" artists and good and original cosmic jazz rap) on a CBC (Canadian radio) radio arts programme (but I don't remember the names). Some of the best sounding I've heard has been pure mish-mash with rap dubs, but I'd rather hear more original compositions.  At least Dr. Daneil Bernard Roumain is a very talented guy whose been active in hip-hop (though the greater world of hip-hop I can enjoy).  TO be honest, it's not really a style I've explored that much, but thought I'd post those and see what others thought (to me they didn't really sound atypical structurally either).
Agreed - I was going to mention this if nobody else had. Dalek are well worth checking out in their own right, incidentally; they record for Mike Patton's Ipecac label which should tell you something. The Faust collaboration is closer to Industrial than RIO to my ears, but still a fascinating experiment and a good album.
 
Interestingly, RIO/Avant seems to be more open to some of the possibilities opened up by turntablism and plunderphonics than other sub genres here; Otomo Yoshihide of Ground Zero and numerous other Japanoise projects is probably better known for his abilities on the twin decks than he is for his abilities as a guitarist.
 
Quite frankly, anybody who will casually dismiss an entire genre - be it rap, country, emo or punk - should go and play somewhere else and only return to PA when they've grown up a bit.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2009 at 11:32
Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by Green Shield Stamp Green Shield Stamp wrote:

Someone said earlier in this thread that 'we' (assuming he is speaking for all prog fans) don't like country music.  I obviously don't belong in the 'we', because I think that 'Red Headed Stranger' by Willie Nelson is a definite 5 star album.
 
I don't belong to this category as well. there are some really interesting artists in this genre : johnny cash, townes van zandt, willis alan ramsey, new riders of the purple sage and many others...
To say nothing of Gene Clark, Gram Parsons and (more recently) Lambchop.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2009 at 11:09
Originally posted by Green Shield Stamp Green Shield Stamp wrote:

Someone said earlier in this thread that 'we' (assuming he is speaking for all prog fans) don't like country music.  I obviously don't belong in the 'we', because I think that 'Red Headed Stranger' by Willie Nelson is a definite 5 star album.
 
I don't belong to this category as well. there are some really interesting artists in this genre : johnny cash, townes van zandt, willis alan ramsey, new riders of the purple sage and many others...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2009 at 07:50
How about Graeme Edge 'rapping' on some of those early Moodies albums ('Red is grey and yellow white / But we decide which is right')?
 
Someone said earlier in this thread that 'we' (assuming he is speaking for all prog fans) don't like country music.  I obviously don't belong in the 'we', because I think that 'Red Headed Stranger' by Willie Nelson is a definite 5 star album.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2009 at 05:00
A bit offtopic, but...
 
On the Genesis 'Live in Rome' DVD it seemed that Collins had adapted a bit of the ' Rapper' image. Bald, the right clothes and even sometimes the body language of a rapper :)
 
 


Edited by Rottenhat - October 10 2009 at 05:01
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2009 at 01:57
Yeah, POS has been getting a lot of attention this year. Not proggy, but his group, Doomtree, can be rather strange.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2009 at 01:36

A rapper that is somewhat enjoyable to listen to but without connection to prog : P.O.S.

 
 
The closer to prog I know is the hardcore band Candiria, with a black vocalist who is sort of schizophrenic as he has the typical hardcore screaming voice on the hardcore tunes and the rapping voice on the rap tunes of the same band...check out some excerpts here : http://www.spirit-of-metal.com/album-groupe-Candiria-nom_album-300_Percent_Density-l-fr.html#mp3
 
 
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2009 at 23:43
If there's any DJs out there, the market's wide open on some hip-hop prog remixes.
 
I myself once made a beat out of Roulette Dares by The Mars Volta.
 
Speaking of TMV though, they've got some rap connects. They've collabed with El-P and Handsome Boy Modelling School and keyboardist Ikey Owens did a full-length with rapper 2Mex (under the name Look Daggers) called Suffer In Style.
 
Go to Youtube and check out the Look Daggers track Falcon Gentle, I really dug that.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2009 at 20:44
I read some time ago in the Yes official site that Jon Anderson was looking for someone with experience in Rap or Hip Hop for some project he had in mind. Never knew exactly what Anderson was thinking about and so far there's been no more news that I know of.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2009 at 19:46
Organised Konfusion were another act that felt prog at times.
 
Oh but on the broader topic of alternative rap, has anyone ever listened to any nerdcore? Nerdcore are mostly online rappers who come from outside hip-hop and just rap about anything they like (the cliche is geeky pop culture) and use any musical influences they like too- it's rarely serious enough to qualify as prog but the wierd mash of subject matter and sounds do have a wiff of prog to them. Significant nerdcore acts include MC Lars, MC Chris, MC Frontalot, Optimus Rhymes, Beefy, MC Router and YT Cracker.
 
Oh and you should listen to MC Paul Barman because he is hilarious.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2009 at 18:52
Material (Bill Laswell's 70s/80s band) experimented in rock, funk and even rap. At least one of the rap songs was actually likeable (and the instrumentation was spiffy) but this was before rap lyrics took a turn for the grotesque.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2009 at 18:43
I love early 90's rap but it's way to commercialized now.Personally, I really enjoy listening to some Hip-Hop with funky beats but the whole pure rap music thing is just insanely awful. It should be a niche genre. Rap can be Progressive, but it certainly isn't at this time.

Edited by Xanthous - October 09 2009 at 18:45
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2009 at 18:41
Outkast were certainly very creative and went outside the boxes. They also used a live band in concerts.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2009 at 17:47
I like Outkast



and for a "mainstreem" rap group they certanly are a very creative duo with some grate albums with some great arangments. (they have even sampled Focus - Focus III on there album ATLiens on the song Wheelz of Steel) and have a lot of Psychadelia, Jazz, Electronica, funk, rock and soul elements
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2009 at 17:30
There's also Sonic Sum who are very serious and artistic, but they also suck unfortunately.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2009 at 17:01
Oh, I applaud the offerings, Logan. And whether or not they moved me (didn't, but I didn't dislike them either) it's worth the effort to give them a listen. I do think it sounds like there is a desire to expand the scope of rap and hip-hop, but I just don't see that it really has a chance of expanding into the area of prog. The styles are just much to incongruous to ever truly combine effectively, or even realistically.
Maybe someday, someone will find that "missing link" and mesh them triumphantly, but it just seems a bit of a reach to me.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2009 at 16:53
I liked the Id Obelus...those are great samples but that's a total of about 30 minutes tops on a recording surface. For a studio guy like Devin Townsend, about twice through the mix.
 
The lyrics are sometimes quite good but even the vocal rhythms just aren't that compelling most of the time. When someone finds an interesting new way to phrase (Bone Thugs) it get completely used up within a year.
 
I'd personally rather listen to Ani DiFranco who eclipses all this including this.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2009 at 16:40
Yeah, guess you're right, *frinspar*.  Even the collaboration with Faust (one of the big names of Krautrock, and a favoured band by me) isn't really structurally progressive, I think.

Still, this album should interest a number here:


3.42 | 4 ratings
FAUST vs. DÄLEK - Derbe Respect, Alder
2004

Maybe we'll have to wait until "Rap in Opposition" catches fire.

I know I've heard some pretty experimental bands that made rap with fairly unusual structures and instrumentation such as "live" violins and cello (I don't really like rap to be honest, but I've been looking to find some "chamber rap" artists and good and original cosmic jazz rap) on a CBC (Canadian radio) radio arts programme (but I don't remember the names). Some of the best sounding I've heard has been pure mish-mash with rap dubs, but I'd rather hear more original compositions.  At least Dr. Daneil Bernard Roumain is a very talented guy whose been active in hip-hop (though the greater world of hip-hop I can enjoy).  TO be honest, it's not really a style I've explored that much, but thought I'd post those and see what others thought (to me they didn't really sound atypical structurally either).

Edited by Logan - October 08 2009 at 16:41
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