Vocal "control" and expressiveness

Who here can actually sing or understand how the larynx stretches or at what point notes come from? As a poll it doesn't contain Jon Anderson whose voice for me contains everything a great singer has.Note I didn't say rock singer,and I will therefore have to choose one from it.As such it still has two of my other favourites, Peter Hammill and Peter Gabriel.This is extremely difficult and both have great merits.Hammill's voice so powerful,and yet so gentle.It rips emotions up from within and fires them out in all directions.As a vocal exercise simply listen to the man's vocal dexterity on 'Still Life'; I can sing it and know how having a range of 3 octaves he can soar with ease to reach stentorian galvanic vocal bliss.His voice has almost everything.It possibly does!As for Gabriel, another master vocalist who can sing in so many different ways.Neither are trained singers I think, and are naturally gifted as most great vocalist outwith the operatic sphere are.The voice can be nurtured and breathing techniques can be used but the voice is a gift from God and these two certainly have that gift.On an emotional choice it has to be Hammill.Fish also has great merits but not quite as good as these two.

Edited by Fragile

I don't know if this is correct in musical terms, but voice control IMO is about using the strong aspects of the voice and learning how to deal with the weak ones and has almost nothing to do with having a a great or an average voice.

That's the reason why I voted for Peter Gabriel, I really don't believe he has a great voice, he sounds raspy and has serious problems with the high ranges, but he learned how to deal with the problem, as I mentioned before the semi yodeling at the end of a word is a great way to cover his weak spot without avoiding high rages, but adding more dramatism and emotion instead.

Phil Collins is a good singer (Not vocalist), has a nice voice for the soft stuff  but has a lot of troubles when trying to do the harder parts or change the voice,  there are Gabriel songs that he never (Or at the most one time) dared to do on stage, like Battle for the Epping Forest (Because too many different modulations of voice are required) or Dancing with the Moonlit Knight, because that acapella section is too hard for a guy that sings in one and only range.

When Gabriel had to give emotion he changed the voice to adapt to the circumstances, Collins only shouted, listen the difference between the two endings of The Musical Box, Gabriel transmits desperation and or some form of lust and Collins only rises his voice, the best example is Mama, the noises he makes are frustrating for me.

In the cases when Collins tried to sing Gabriel tracks like Willows Farm on Supper's Ready (Seconds Out) it was really disappointing, he noticed he couldn't impersonate more than one character and tried to replace the different modulations with funny voices (Which are not funny), in his version of The Lamb in the same album he has to repeat words to avoid reaching parts where he can't get, like singing And the lamb lies down (down down down) instead of making the only "Down" last longer, what simply annoys me.

That’s why I voted for him as the vocalist with best voice control, even when there are guys like Lake or Wetton with much better natural voice.

Iván

Hangedman wrote: I think as a singer i have to say peter hammil is (this is my opinion) the best singer in almost all respects to ever be in rock and roll. My favourite is gabriel but hammil is better as far as im concerned. I dont know why people are voting for fish that much, i mean fish is great (really great) but ive always found him to be gabriel lite... hmm maybe i should check out moreo f his solo material.

I would think Hammill-lite rather than Gabriel-lite - Fish's style is so much more evocative of PH than PG. This is totally apparent on the "Fish-era" Marillion albums

There's nothing about Fish's voice that makes me think PG - or lite, come to think of it!

I'd vote for PG, too. Unfortunately I don't know enough songs from the others to confrim this decision 

I think as a singer i have to say peter hammil is (this is my opinion) the best singer in almost all respects to ever be in rock and roll. My favourite is gabriel but hammil is better as far as im concerned. I dont know why people are voting for fish that much, i mean fish is great (really great) but ive always found him to be gabriel lite... hmm maybe i should check out moreo f his solo material.

maani wrote: Anderson's vocal control is almost frightening.  Setting aside "expressiveness" for a moment, he can do things with his voice that are truly amazing - almost "operatic" - in the sense of breath control, trills, rolls, etc.  I have rarely heard the "bum note" from him, even when he is doing difficult "dips and turns" with his voice.

I know this poll is in respect of studio recordings, oh wise one, but you'd retract that remark had you seen Tull live the last few times I have.....

Unfortunately (I love Tull, by the way), he can no longer cut it live; missing more notes than he hits - age hits us all in the end, I guess....

maani wrote: So, in the words of the "caller": It's Anderson in the lead, with Gabriel back by a nose.  Fish is coming up fast from behind, with Hammill and Lake neck and neck along the rail.  Photo finish?

 

Missed opportunity there Maani for a few piscotorial puns - which one of the five is now hard of herring, but has come in in first plaice........................ etc. A sort of codded message but I won't carp (he said with a breaming smile).

All:

Thanks for your responses.  All very well thought out and reasoned.  Good cases are being made for all the singers.

After a great deal of angst - to say nothing of repeated listenings to numerous albums - I found myself voting for Anderson, with Gabriel a very close second (Fish third, Hammill fourth, Lake fifth - for which threefates is gonna hand my head to me! ).

Anderson's vocal control is almost frightening.  Setting aside "expressiveness" for a moment, he can do things with his voice that are truly amazing - almost "operatic" - in the sense of breath control, trills, rolls, etc.  I have rarely heard the "bum note" from him, even when he is doing difficult "dips and turns" with his voice.  And even with his occasionally strange, and often nasal, voice, he enunciates better than anyone else in the field (with the possible exception of Lake): I never have trouble making out the lyrics, even if I am not following along with them.  This is not true of Gabriel, Fish or Hammill, who all mumble or elide occasionally (and not just for effect).

Re "expressiveness," here I was torn between Anderson and Gabriel.  In fact, I think Gabriel may have a slight edge, but that his edge is increased by the overall expressiveness of Genesis' music vis-a-vis Tull's; i.e., Anderson and Gabriel may be equally expressive, but since Genesis' music is, on the whole, more expressive than JT's, Gabriel comes out ahead by a hair.  Still, Anderson is equal to the task, if "expressiveness" includes not only vocal inflection and emotion, but the voice - timbre, range, etc. - being most appropriate for the music itself.  In this regard, I think Anderson's voice is just a tad more suited for Tull than Gabriel's is for Genesis.  (After all, Genesis went on to record with Collins on vocals, and did very well, even if Collins is no Gabriel.  Can you imagine anyone being able to handle JT's vocals properly with Anderson gone?...)

So, in the words of the "caller": It's Anderson in the lead, with Gabriel back by a nose.  Fish is coming up fast from behind, with Hammill and Lake neck and neck along the rail.  Photo finish?

Peace.

P.S.  Emperor: I only caught the error (Hamill) after I posted, and one cannot edit the poll itself.  I also realized I had forgotten to include the question!

I understand Threefates has not joining the forum yet.

Dick Heath wrote: Sorry, as ever I'm going to be different. Francis Dunnery is my man., both when in It Bites (when at times, he could be the best Peter Gabriel sounding vocalist around ), and then his solo career. Sure he has taken his references from Gabriel and to a far lesser extent  Fish, but he has then extended the expressiveness of those guys  into a much broader range. Take a listen to his cover of Cat Stevens's Father & Son (ex. Long Tall Helicopter - in fact listen to whole album) for an excellent example of his power - makes that recent hit (which had to bring in Yoshif Mohammed in to save it) sound desperately poor.

 Dick. I also think Francis is the most original Pete Gab sounding vocalist, he developed indeed a unique style that distinguishes him from other Gab-clones (Peter Nichols, Fish, the guy who sings in Citizen Cain). Moreover, he is also one of the best Holdsworth-influenced guitarist.