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tszirmay 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 6673
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 Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:46 |
 thellama73 wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
I am sorry that I somehow offended you but if you look at your post , you simply contradict yourself! How so?I never said you were lazy (I am not a republican candidate  ). You state that learning another language has no benefitsI never said any such thing. Of course it has benefits. and not worth the cost. Is everything culturally dictated by cost? Yes, every decision any of us makes is based on a cost-benefit analysis. I am an economist.Do you not think that a young American businessman seeking to do business in China who speaks mandarin would be a prefered candidate over someone who insists' "you guys gotta learn our English" Of course, but most Americans don't do business in China. I'm sure many of the ones that do learn Mandarin. My generalizations are not constant nor are they offensive because your comments only uphold my arguments. I have been around a long time and deeply enjoy American values along with their weaknesses. Unless of course you wish to deny their existence. |
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Thank you so very much for being an economist! The world desperately needs Cartesian minds that eschew any kind of useless waste of time, effort and mostly money! The financial meltdown was caused by all those bleeding heart liberal polyglot multi-cultural dreamers who dropped the ball . Ooops , more generalizations, its perhaps time for me to say "au revoir, cher illumine"!
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32588
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Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:47 |
thellama73 wrote:
^I saw a Bible in parallel Hebrew, Greek and English today and thought of you Rob. I have learned a little ancient Greek and Biblical Hebrew is on my to do list. Maybe one day I can read it in the original.
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My skills are limited in either, but I for biblical purposes I can them a word at a time.
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:48 |
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:50 |
tszirmay wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
I am sorry that I somehow offended you but if you look at your post , you simply contradict yourself! How so?I never said you were lazy (I am not a republican candidate ). You state that learning another language has no benefitsI never said any such thing. Of course it has benefits. and not worth the cost. Is everything culturally dictated by cost? Yes, every decision any of us makes is based on a cost-benefit analysis. I am an economist.Do you not think that a young American businessman seeking to do business in China who speaks mandarin would be a prefered candidate over someone who insists' "you guys gotta learn our English" Of course, but most Americans don't do business in China. I'm sure many of the ones that do learn Mandarin. My generalizations are not constant nor are they offensive because your comments only uphold my arguments. I have been around a long time and deeply enjoy American values along with their weaknesses. Unless of course you wish to deny their existence. |
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Thank you so very much for being an economist! The world desperately needs Cartesian minds that eschew any kind of useless waste of time, effort and mostly money! The financial meltdown was caused by all those bleeding heart liberal polyglot multi-cultural dreamers who dropped the ball . Ooops , more generalizations, its perhaps time for me to say "au revoir, cher illumine"! |
I was trying to have a serious discussion with you, but I can see that you are only interested in being insulting, so forget it. You may have your American stereotypes, but you are not doing a lot to make your countrymen look good.
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irrelevant
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 07 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 13382
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Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:51 |
zappaholic wrote:
I've been told that the people of Australia are the only people in the world without an accent. (I was told this by an Australian.)
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 We most definitely do. The closest it gets to "without an accent" would be the upper-class British style English.
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:53 |
tszirmay wrote:
Spoken like a true patriot ! |
Oh man this is just getting silly.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:57 |
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tszirmay
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 6673
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Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:59 |
thellama73 wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
I am sorry that I somehow offended you but if you look at your post , you simply contradict yourself! How so?I never said you were lazy (I am not a republican candidate ). You state that learning another language has no benefitsI never said any such thing. Of course it has benefits. and not worth the cost. Is everything culturally dictated by cost? Yes, every decision any of us makes is based on a cost-benefit analysis. I am an economist.Do you not think that a young American businessman seeking to do business in China who speaks mandarin would be a prefered candidate over someone who insists' "you guys gotta learn our English" Of course, but most Americans don't do business in China. I'm sure many of the ones that do learn Mandarin. My generalizations are not constant nor are they offensive because your comments only uphold my arguments. I have been around a long time and deeply enjoy American values along with their weaknesses. Unless of course you wish to deny their existence. |
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Thank you so very much for being an economist! The world desperately needs Cartesian minds that eschew any kind of useless waste of time, effort and mostly money! The financial meltdown was caused by all those bleeding heart liberal polyglot multi-cultural dreamers who dropped the ball . Ooops , more generalizations, its perhaps time for me to say "au revoir, cher illumine"! |
I was trying to have a serious discussion with you, but I can see that you are only interested in being insulting, so forget it. You may have your American stereotypes, but you are not doing a lot to make your countrymen look good.
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Which countrymen are you referring to? Since I have 7 cultures , which one is the stereotype? You feel insulted by my comments? You have no idea what an insult is then! You CLEARLY stated that as an economist, you base decision purely on a cost analysis basis, yet earlier you said CLEARLY that the COSTS outweigh the benefits . Which means , in English or in Russian, that there are no benefits if the cost is too high. And you are upset with me? I mean if you cannot see the contradiction in your statement , I am very very sorry for any kind of pain I may have caused. I am a historian and a businessman and I understand what cost benefit is. Its not the only GOD!
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:59 |
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^Probably. I think economics and personal finance should be taught in public schools as well.
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tszirmay
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 6673
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Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:01 |
stonebeard wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
Spoken like a true patriot ! |
Oh man this is just getting silly. |
But , sir, you said that there is no reason to care! Why do you care then?
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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tszirmay
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 6673
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Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:04 |
QUOTE=thellama73]^Probably. I think economics and personal finance should be taught in public schools as well.
[/QUOTE]
Now that is finally well said.  I concur wholeheartedly You see ,we can get along after all! |
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:04 |
tszirmay wrote:
Which countrymen are you referring to? Since I have 7 cultures , which one is the stereotype? You feel insulted by my comments? You have no idea what an insult is then! You CLEARLY stated that as an economist, you base decision purely on a cost analysis basis, yet earlier you said CLEARLY that the COSTS outweigh the benefits . Which means , in English or in Russian, that there are no benefits if the cost is too high. And you are upset with me? I mean if you cannot see the contradiction in your statement , I am very very sorry for any kind of pain I may have caused. I am a historian and a businessman and I understand what cost benefit is. Its not the only GOD! |
If the cost outweighs the benefit, that doesn't mean there is no benefit to be had. A new car confers a benefit, but if you can't afford it, you don't buy it. A cost is not merely financial. Time is a cost, energy is a cost. Like it or not, everything you do is based on an evaluation of cost versus benefit. If you respond to this post, it is because the pleasure or satisfaction you get from doing so is greater than the value of your time spent typing. I think you are misunderstanding the term. As far as I can see, you still have not pointed out any contradiction I have made, so perhaps you need to be more explicit.
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:07 |
tszirmay wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
Spoken like a true patriot ! |
Oh man this is just getting silly. |
But , sir, you said that there is no reason to care! Why do you care then? |
I said for most Americans, it doesn't really matter. Most people here in general aren't very exploratory, and not too willing to immerse in other cultures anyway, let alone the paltry amount of vacation time and benefits we get anyway. What would we do? Here, learning Spanish is possible, and almost everyone takes a couple semesters of a foreign language. I've had somewhere around 8 semesters in school and college. I didn't retain it because I never found a need or a desire to use it, and it wasn't necessary. Sure it could be useful, but I have other interests, and it's actually a lot of work to learn after the age of easy impression. I have other interests and other skills to develop, ones that I actually want to use.
If I were, and if most Americans were under constant strain for not being able to know Spanish, well I bet they would play a higher priority on it. As it is, no.
Sounds to me like you love languages a lot and can't understand why someone else wouldn't.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:13 |
thellama73 wrote:
^Probably. I think economics and personal finance should be taught in public schools as well.
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Those two, some languages (obviously including English first), and math should be mandatory. As for all other subjects, let students move in their chosen paths, with available guidance of course.
History isn't neutral so I'm not sure it should always be taught. It can lead to bad things.
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tszirmay
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 6673
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Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:19 |
stonebeard wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
Spoken like a true patriot ! |
Oh man this is just getting silly. |
But , sir, you said that there is no reason to care! Why do you care then? |
I said for most Americans, it doesn't really matter. Most people here in general aren't very exploratory, and not too willing to immerse in other cultures anyway, let alone the paltry amount of vacation time and benefits we get anyway. What would we do? Here, learning Spanish is possible, and almost everyone takes a couple semesters of a foreign language. I've had somewhere around 8 semesters in school and college. I didn't retain it because I never found a need or a desire to use it, and it wasn't necessary. Sure it could be useful, but I have other interests, and it's actually a lot of work to learn after the age of easy impression. I have other interests and other skills to develop, ones that I actually want to use.
If I were, and if most Americans were under constant strain for not being able to know Spanish, well I bet they would play a higher priority on it. As it is, no.
Sounds to me like you love languages a lot and can't understand why someone else wouldn't. |
Not at all, my dear sir. Its not the languages but the culture that goes with it. If people from diverse cultures could communicate better with each other, there would be a gentler world. I earlier gave an example of an incident in LA in 1980, it illustrates that with only a few words, you can go from enemy to friend in an instant. But you are right, there are posts here in English and we don't understand each other. I easily understand people who rely only on their mother tongue. I just cannot accept that the reasons given are so flimsy......"Lack of benefits versus cost etc....". That sounds like old school nationalism to me.......You know the Us and Them syndrome....
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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thellama73
Collaborator
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Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:22 |
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What? How does the observation that every decision has a cost that must be weighed against the benefit have anything to do with nationalism? For someone who prides himself on his ability to communicate, you sure seem to be having a hard time understand what I am saying.
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tszirmay
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 6673
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Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:26 |
thellama73 wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
Which countrymen are you referring to? Since I have 7 cultures , which one is the stereotype? You feel insulted by my comments? You have no idea what an insult is then! You CLEARLY stated that as an economist, you base decision purely on a cost analysis basis, yet earlier you said CLEARLY that the COSTS outweigh the benefits . Which means , in English or in Russian, that there are no benefits if the cost is too high. And you are upset with me? I mean if you cannot see the contradiction in your statement , I am very very sorry for any kind of pain I may have caused. I am a historian and a businessman and I understand what cost benefit is. Its not the only GOD! |
If the cost outweighs the benefit, that doesn't mean there is no benefit to be had. A new car confers a benefit, but if you can't afford it, you don't buy it.
A cost is not merely financial. Time is a cost, energy is a cost. Like it or not, everything you do is based on an evaluation of cost versus benefit. If you respond to this post, it is because the pleasure or satisfaction you get from doing so is greater than the value of your time spent typing. I think you are misunderstanding the term.
As far as I can see, you still have not pointed out any contradiction I have made, so perhaps you need to be more explicit.
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A new car confers a benefit, but if you can't afford it, you don't buy it. Where is the benefit then, you walk away on foot. I guess its better for your cardio vascular . You see what I mean by contradiction? Perhaps as an economist or as an American dreaming of a car has an intrinsic value, giving one ambition or desire. But if you cannot have it , how can that have any real value? Only in the good old financially conscious USSR could one pay and then wait 10 years later to get their car . Again, I apologize but it seems we cannot agree on this issue of benefit and cost. I just understand profit (aka getting a return on your investment.). I believe culture does precisely that .
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970
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Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:34 |
Well, from what I know nobody really gives a flying f%$k about the Russian accent. "Where's your accent from? Is it German? Ukrainian? Irish? Oh, Russian! OK, then. Bye." As for the accents here in the US, ... I really don't care for them much ... save for that from Brooklyn and that from South. That thick Italian accent. Sounds a bit funny. "Two yoots." "Two yoots?" "No, ... two ... yoods." The Southern accent ... it just sounds weird. How did this really loose way of pronouncing words come about?
Edited by Dayvenkirq - September 24 2012 at 23:36
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:36 |
tszirmay wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
Which countrymen are you referring to? Since I have 7 cultures , which one is the stereotype? You feel insulted by my comments? You have no idea what an insult is then! You CLEARLY stated that as an economist, you base decision purely on a cost analysis basis, yet earlier you said CLEARLY that the COSTS outweigh the benefits . Which means , in English or in Russian, that there are no benefits if the cost is too high. And you are upset with me? I mean if you cannot see the contradiction in your statement , I am very very sorry for any kind of pain I may have caused. I am a historian and a businessman and I understand what cost benefit is. Its not the only GOD! |
If the cost outweighs the benefit, that doesn't mean there is no benefit to be had. A new car confers a benefit, but if you can't afford it, you don't buy it.
A cost is not merely financial. Time is a cost, energy is a cost. Like it or not, everything you do is based on an evaluation of cost versus benefit. If you respond to this post, it is because the pleasure or satisfaction you get from doing so is greater than the value of your time spent typing. I think you are misunderstanding the term.
As far as I can see, you still have not pointed out any contradiction I have made, so perhaps you need to be more explicit.
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A new car confers a benefit, but if you can't afford it, you don't buy it. Where is the benefit then, you walk away on foot. I guess its better for your cardio vascular . You see what I mean by contradiction? Perhaps as an economist or as an American dreaming of a car has an intrinsic value, giving one ambition or desire. But if you cannot have it , how can that have any real value? Only in the good old financially conscious USSR could one pay and then wait 10 years later to get their car . Again, I apologize but it seems we cannot agree on this issue of benefit and cost. I just understand profit (aka getting a return on your investment.). I believe culture does precisely that . |
Okay, look. I want to buy a new car, which costs $15,000. Factoring in gasoline, maintenance and insurance, I calculate that in the first year of owning the car, it will cost me $25,000 total. Then I think about the benefits of having a car: the time I will save, the places I could get to that would otherwise be inaccessible, and determine that this benefit would only be worth an equivalent of $20,000 in the first year. If I buy the car, I "lose" $5000 in value. If I choose not to buy it, I have effectively made a $5000 profit. The car still has a benefit. It has a benefit of $20,000. But I can get a greater benefit by not buying it, so I don't. If I want to learn Spanish, I may determine that the cost of books, lessons, time and effort is more than what I would get out of knowing the language. There are still benefits to knowing it, and it has intrinsic value, but I get more value by not learning it. Again, this is not an instance of "only caring about money." It is about making rational decisions. Now the cost of continuing this discussion has become too high, as I am foregoing valuable sleep, but I will return to it in the morning.
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tszirmay
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 6673
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Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:37 |
thellama73 wrote:
What? How does the observation that every decision has a cost that must be weighed against the benefit have anything to do with nationalism? For someone who prides himself on his ability to communicate, you sure seem to be having a hard time understand what I am saying.
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Nationalism is a control mechanism, often political and always economic. If you cannot see the historical parallels, I am truly puzzled. Austerity measures, budgetary restrictions, cutting waste, creating jobs and rounding up dissidents. Its called a war economy, the single most rapid and successful form of economic revival ever. There are enough foreign and domestic examples of this phenomenon and not seeing linkage here is bizarre. Do not be tempted to disagree just for the sake of disagreeing . I am not an antagonistic fellow at all, ask around! I have a
gentle reputation for being effusively polite and well-behaved on this site. On
occasion, I have been insulted for a variety of my views (mostly political,
historical and religious). How can I be bigoted, shortsighted and monolithic if
I speak 7 languages, learnt 4 major religions and have traveled extensively?
Americans cannot stand anyone non-Americans criticizing anything about the USA, yet there
are fundamental rights to free speech that go beyond liberty, freedom and the
pursuit of happiness. So why cannot your good caring neighbors opine on what we
see as bizarre , like medieval gun laws, oddball politicians and fluttering position in education (32 in the world?). There are laws in some
states that are simply dinosaurish and incomprehensible to modern thinking
people. That being said America encapsulates all that is possible in life and would be first to fight for its survival and improving its tarnished image.
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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