I don't like Neo Prog, change my mind |
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17817 |
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I can follow this rationale much better than the dumping rationale........ie, I Think I'm Going Bald is nothing like The Necromancer. |
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AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Online Points: 18106 |
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Categories or subgenres or whatever you want to call them are good for figuring out what you like and can give you a rough idea(sometimes very rough)as to what something sounds like. I think sometimes people use it as a crutch though to avoid discovering something they might otherwise possibly be into. I'm guilty of this myself as I tend to stay away from stuff labelled "RIO" or "avant" as well as maybe a few other genres. So it because a matter of convenience but it can be taken too far imo. If you think you might like something listen to it on youtube regardless of how it's labelled here.
Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - April 04 2020 at 09:48 |
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 35400 |
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My personal perspective is that it's better to try to classify music on the album or even track level commonly rather than classifying bands, which may well have diverse discographies.
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Two tracks per many of my fave acts: A Youtube Playlist
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17817 |
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I suspect if there is Polish neo-prog, Riverside would know about it. Everything I have read on Riverside and who influenced them always they point to Dream Theater, Rush, Yes, Marillion and a lot of heavy metal like Iron Maiden, Slayer and Black Sabbath. This is what I hear in Riverside's albums, pretty much all of them. The problem I see with Neo-prog is a large % of bands that got dumped there are no longer there with their new output. So what might be correct to be in Neo-prog is only because of a time frame, neo to me is a forced categorization.
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 35400 |
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I'm no expert in Neo-Prog, but I have associated it with certain sounds, rather than just thinking of it as a temporal thing. Looking at rateyourmusic, which has multi-genre tagging for albums (and is very far from perfect as different people make different associations), the first two by Phideaux, Fiendish and Ghost Story are described as Progressive Rock first, then as the lesser categorisation Neo-Prog. Number 7 is described as Progressive Rock, Symphonic Prog first, then as Neo-Prog as the lesser classification. One gets psych as the lesser category on one album. The primary band genres for Phideaux's music at rateyourmusic are Progressive Rock, Symphonic Prog, Art Rock.
Lots of acts cross styles on an individual album, and different albums by an act will be classified rather differently. Diversity is something of a hallmark of Prog, so one can expect Prog artists to bring in various approaches. Different people make different associations with music, and is is said, nomenclature is the bane of the archivist. Edited by Logan - April 04 2020 at 09:36 |
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Two tracks per many of my fave acts: A Youtube Playlist
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Grumpyprogfan
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 09 2019 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 11406 |
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Softandwet... have you listened to any of the recommendations you were given?
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 42970 |
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I would not say it's gone, otherwise how can anyone explain the rise of Polish neo-prog. Even Riverside were influenced by it earlier in their career, their early albums.
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17817 |
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And there is your problem......Who cares!! Do you like Phideaux? If you do then what is the problem? Why insert a musical category buffer that not many people even consider a genre anymore. So many people lose out on simply sitting down and listen to music without having to FIRST categorize it, then decide if its worthy of a spin. Honestly, neo-prog is not a genre of music but a period in time and that period has come and gone.
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lazland
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13600 |
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The only advice I would give is to consider the music on its merits, not its sub-genre category on this site.
In terms of the new classification, Marillion ceased being a neo band as long ago as the early nineties, certainly with the release of Brave. Their music sweeps a broad spectrum of intelligent rock music, and an earlier post mentioned FEAR. This is exceptional, and as far away from neo as you are likely to get. Ditto Pendragon. Until the latest, incredible, release, they had moved into far heavier territory with the past four or so releases. The latest one is simply an emotional tour de force. For consistent sound, IQ have not moved far from their roots, and if you never did like them, recent releases will not change your mind. The sub-genre classifications in this site are simply far too narrow to provide you with the depth and breadth of most long-standing artists we have. Again, for example, Floyd. They could never be described as a psych band post Meddle, ever. |
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 35400 |
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A lack of emotion isn't how I'd describe a lot of Neo-Prog, it can be very dramatic and emotional. I'm a very reserved type of person and am uncomfortable expressing my emotions in public (at this forum I feel a little more comfortable opening up), so the emotionality of much Neo-Prog was rather off-putting to me. And I'm not a big fan of symphonic Prog or most crossover prog, or melodic rock/AOR or arena rock type things, so it wasn't a natural fit. When you posted, I assumed that you would have tried to explore the PA category quite a bit already, and we'd be looking for more obscure bands and lesser-known albums. Christi mentioned this above, but see: http://www.progarchives.com/subgenre.asp?style=18 Marillion, IQ, Pendragon, Arena, and Magenta are some of the biggest names. Sometimes, as others have mentioned, that which is included in Neo_Prog here I would have thought of as Crossover first -- the categories cross over, as it does with symphonic, heavy prog etc.,that's kind of prog's nature. Like with every category at PA, there is music included that I enjoy (there would be a lot if I took the time). I suggest going through that Neo-Prog page I linked to above, and check out the top Neo_prog albums chart: CLICK HERE FOR LIST. Then maybe you can tell us which of those bands and albums you've explored. Also,maybe list your top ten favourite bands so that we can find ones that should appeal to the same tastes. I do think it's more up to you to change your own mind if you want to, you do that with research, trying to understand it, and listening to plenty. While I'm sure given enough time,and that you are a good listener and commenting on the suggestions thoroughly, people could find music you like in the category, that wouldn't make a fan of the category. Well, it could lead to you finding more and more to like. But you have to be willing to put the time and effort into it.Obviously it helps if you already know how it is we define it at this site and know representative of it albums. I actually think it's a category I could like a lot more than I used to think I could (I did explore it quite well, but my tastes were narrower back then, and in fact more experimental/ out there than they generally are now). Looking at the rateyourmusic Neo-Prog chart: CLICK , I like one of the big names, Twelth Night (I enjoyed Fact and Fiction). EDIT: a reason why I like rate your music charts is because they classify by the album rather than by act -- acts might show a diversity of styles across albums, but at PA we can't label or multi-label albums (except in reviews and bios) and just label bands. One that was once recommended to me that I enjoyed was The Watch (helped that I like Genesis). My favourite was Discipline in Neo-Prog, but then it got moved to Symphonic Prog. I liked Unfolded Like Staircase, which is Symph, but I guess it's Disciplines debut which might be best described as Neo-Prog. I like various Marillion, and have found IQ that I like.... Edited by Logan - April 04 2020 at 09:17 |
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Two tracks per many of my fave acts: A Youtube Playlist
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 42970 |
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no, crossover prog if you're not sure what neo-prog is, check out the neo-prog page on PA (obviously).
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softandwet
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 06 2019 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 211 |
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Can Phideaux be considered as a Neo Prog band?
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So don’t evade the surgeon’s blade
Cos the answer could be in your mind Maybe one cut and we’ll find We’re just a wavelength behind But we are entwined And I know what you need |
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15916 |
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Edited by Tom Ozric - April 04 2020 at 15:28 |
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dougmcauliffe
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 23 2019 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 3895 |
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Personally I consider Neal Morse either Neo Prog or Crossover prog. I think he fits there better than symphonic prog imo.
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The sun has left the sky...
...Now you can close your eyes |
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Passionist
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 14 2005 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 1119 |
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I mean, yeah, I think they're fine under crossover, but that's the problem with neo really. It's basically full of old bands that repeat the same songs from the 80's but with a lot of heavy guitar and angst (IQ, Pendragon, Arena, what ever). But if you consider Marillion, after '91 and Holidays in Eden, neoprog, then I think Gazpacho fits in as well as a lot of crossover does. I guess that's why they don't like the term neoprog either. Man, I used to be a real prog head, but looking at the classifications here, it seems all my bands have been moved to crossover. I'm pretty sure Pure Reason Revolution was neo as well, when their first album came out. That's how I used to find new bands, checking the neo list one by one.
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 42970 |
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I gave up on this band, I remember them being a Genesis pastiche. I'm gonna give them another chance, see how I feel about them now.
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15916 |
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Gazpacho aren’t Neo by any stretch to me. I have Demon and I will never purchase any more of theirs. I don’t mind it, but I don’t care for it much either.
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Passionist
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 14 2005 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 1119 |
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Personally this has become my all time favourite genre, and I can easily tell, what goes into it and what not, when I'm listening to new stuff.
What I understand is that you've been listening to the cliches that started the genre back in the day. Although most of it is really good stuff and I get back to it again and again, I want to be the one to recommend to actually take a look at what's going on at this very moment. F.E.A.R was the one album that actually made me leave everything and travel to see Marillion live. They're working on a new album as we speak, too, and I'm sure it'll be brilliant. Gazpacho hasn't released new material in a while, but there's a new album coming very soon, and their latest is amazingly atmospheric. Give it a spin. If you do want to check out some new stuff, maybe give This Winter Machine a chance? I know they draw a lot from Marillions (etc.) early work, but have a modern touch and some skills, especially in song writing. They released 2 albums within 2 years and are writing a new one as we speak, if I understood correctly. So forget the ones with best reviews. The albums have been there for a while now for fanboys to bathe them with praise. That's the problem with a niche genre. Sure they're good too, but I'd suggest checking the newer material. Neo is not just the 80's anymore.
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15916 |
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AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Online Points: 18106 |
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When did Spock's Beard become neo prog?
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