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npjnpj View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Public Perception of Prog
    Posted: February 12 2008 at 04:25
Have any of you also gained the impression over the last few years that 'Prog' in the general view has almost started to become synonymous with 'backward'?
 
If you've also gotten this impression, how do you think this has come about and what would be necessary to remedy it?
 
Personally I'm stumped.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2008 at 06:15
As far as I can see it's always been synonomous with pretense, pomposity and a general sense of being 'un-cool' It's also percieved to be boring and music of a 'best forgotten' age..

To be honest, I know people who think The Eagles are prog rock. Most people under the age of 40 dont actually know what it is anyway.

There is no remedy for the problem really. The first things the masses have always looked for in music, are whether you can sing along, and whether you can dance to it. You cant really do either to prog rock after one listen, so it was always going to be a minority thing.

I wouldn't let you get you down..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2008 at 07:51
The public are probably unaware of it until some ill-informed pundit mouths off in the media - when they too often demonstrate they have not heard any prog. At least recently  I've seen a handful of reviews of albums and even singles, where the critic mentions the word 'prog' or 'proggie', without need for negative comments. As long as the public have the likes of Simon Cowell providing guidance as to music taste - what was Kevin Gilbert's line, "the tasteless advising the bland" - prog will be culture-shock. Cowell's Desert Island Disc choices, says it all wrt lack of musical imagination:
1. Mack the Knife
Performer Bobby Darin
Composer  Weill/Brecht/Blitzstein
CD Title BBC Radio Two Songs of the Century
Track 16
Label Global Television
Rec No: RADCD 119

2. This Guy's in Love with You
Performer Herb Alpert
Composer Burt Bacharach/Hal David
CD Title Herb Alpert/Definitive Hits
Track 12
Label A & M
Rec No: 4908862

3. She
Performer Charles Aznavour
Composer Kretzner/Aznavour
CD Title The Best of Charles Aznavour
Track 1
Label Premier
Rec No: PRMTVCD4

4. Unchained Melody
Performer The Righteous Brothers
Composer North.Zaret
CD Title The All time Greatest Love Songs
Track Cd2 trk 19
Label Sony Mood
Rec No: CD86

5. Danke Schoen
Performer Wayne Newton
Composer Kaempfert Gabler-Schwabach
CD Title Wild, Cool & Swingin':Wayne Newton
Track 20
Label Capitol
Rec No: 5203322
 
6. If You're Not the One
Performer Daniel Bedingfield
Composer Daniel Bedingfield
CD Title If you're Not the One
Track 1
Label Polydor
Rec No: 0658632

7. Summer Wind
Performer Frank Sinatra
Composer Mayer/Mercer
CD Title Frank Sinatra: Strangers in the Night
Track 2
Label Reprise
Rec No: 9010172

8. Mr Bojangles
Performer Sammy Davis Jr
Composer Jerry Jeff Walker
CD Title Viva Las Vegas
Track Cd1 trk 4
Label Universal Music TV
Rec No: 5856452

Record: Mack the Knife
Book:    
Hollywood Wives by Jackie Collins
Luxury: A mirror
 

The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php
Host by PA's Dick Heath.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2008 at 08:24
That's why this site is here, my friend.  We may be perceived as backwards or just plain "weird" but that's okay.  We should have Tee shirts that read "Prog and Proud!"  Thumbs%20Up
"Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2008 at 08:40
I think the general public will always have a negative but uninformed view of prog rock as long as the likes of Rolling Stone, American Idol, and Clear Channel  are sill in control of public taste. They will not allow it to be heard, and when it is heard it is degraded as pompous and empty. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2008 at 08:42
 Most people I know have no idea what progressive rock is, but in case of "easier" bands they may be rather receptive.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2008 at 08:42

Dick Heath: Is that list for real or is it just some horrible, horrible form of slander?

I find it unbelievable that anyone should openly declare that lot for the bee's knees. Is that Cowell guy an about 90 year old veteran boy-soldier from the first world war? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2008 at 09:35

Unlike metal, jazz, punk, rap, hip-hop etc, prog is not a generally recognised genre amongst the general public, so I don't think most people would consider it "backward".

As for Simon Cowell, he thinks Robson and Jerome are great, so what can you say?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2008 at 10:06
Originally posted by Chicapah Chicapah wrote:

We should have Tee shirts that read "Prog and Proud!"  Thumbs%20Up
 
I'll have one of them there tee-shirts ... but it will need to come in Fat B*stard size! Big%20smile LOL


Edited by T.Rox - February 12 2008 at 10:10
"Without prog, life would be a mistake."



...with apologies to Friedrich Nietzsche
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2008 at 10:33
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

Have any of you also gained the impression over the last few years that 'Prog' in the general view has almost started to become synonymous with 'backward'?
 
If you've also gotten this impression, how do you think this has come about and what would be necessary to remedy it?
 
Personally I'm stumped.

Prog has almost become synonymous with backward over the last few years? 

This moronic attitude has been going on since the '70's.  I remember critics calling prog pretentious when it was really the critics that were pretentious. 

What's the old saying?  Those that can do and those that can't criticize?  You gotta know what you like and like what you know and if they don't know, then screw them.


Edited by Slartibartfast - February 12 2008 at 20:58
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2008 at 11:06
Mention Prog to the average person on the street and they wont have a clue what you're talking about. I have my music loving friends and also a group of friends met through my wife via the kids who's musical taste is in X Factor territory. They've asked me what sort of music I like but ultimately fail to grasp what it is. The proof was when they were talking about all of us going to see a Drifters tribute and naturally I declined and one of them replied "You stick to your Status Quo Paul". Confused

Edited by Nightfly - February 12 2008 at 11:08
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2008 at 11:50
Originally posted by T.Rox T.Rox wrote:

Originally posted by Chicapah Chicapah wrote:

We should have Tee shirts that read "Prog and Proud!"  Thumbs%20Up

 

I'll have one of them there tee-shirts ... but it will need to come in Fat [COLOR=#000000">B*stard[/COLOR"> size! Big%20smile LOL



saw a shirt once, worn by a roadie on the vans warped tour, which said

I HATE ALL YOUR FAVOURITE BANDS.

coolness redefined. gotta have that!

as to the subject – with porcupine tree, tool, oceansize, the mars volta etc. going strong and being
pretty open to their prog roots i see a strong tendency that the music is about to lose it's retro
and backwards image for the time being. as long as people avoid using ol' yes, genesis, ELP etc.
as references for now, it might help to re-establish prog rock big time.
progressive rock and rural tranquility don't match. true or false?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2008 at 11:53
Sh!t, that list has terrified me, one decent song by Frank Sinatra, Charles Aznavour, who most of us won't like him  but has voice..... but the rest ???
 
But even Sinatra and Aznavour have better tracks, but what can you expect of the taste of a man responsible of a karaoke contest?
 
1.- Bobby Darin is one of the worst singers ever, no voice quality or compositional skills, his greatest achievement was marrying Sandra Dee.
 
2.- Herp Albert: A good musician wasted because of his fanatism for easy listening music.
 
3.- Danke Schoen: Simply is embarrassing track by a mediocre crooner wnnabe without voice, charisma or anything
 
BTW: Has anybody noticed that nobody in the list except Daniel Bedingfield writes his stuff?

 

 

Please......Wayne Newton Ouch

Iván


            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2008 at 12:17
A lot of metalheads, or at least the ones I used to hang around with, have a sort of private awe and respect for progressive rock but never listen to it themselves. Perhaps it's because they realise their music is just as geeky as ours? ;P

To the public, jazz is laughably insular, classical is music you listen to while you're doing something else, hard rock is for bikers, dance is for E-heads and blues is for old men. But then, who asked them?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2008 at 12:24
Oh, and as for how to improve prog's PR, the people who insert "guitar god" moments into music documentaries and always pick Jimmy Page or Brian May just need to be reminded about Robert Fripp's short solo on "The Night Watch" - ten seconds of beauty which would wake up a million minds! =P
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2008 at 13:45
I worked in record retail for many years and the few people actually that bought any prog were some of our most loyal customers.  These customers actually spent time in the store and asked us questions about the music and were more open minded.  We just opened the record or cd and played the music "over the top."  99% of the customers followed trends. They thought  we should be playing what they heard on the radio.  We played music our customers would never hear anywhere else.  You could walk into the store and hear southern gospel backed up with prog and then hear rap.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2008 at 16:50
 All this consternation of wither prog is backward or popular or whatever is really not very helpful  to anyone. I know this is for discussion purposes, but does it really matter to you if the public, or your friends or whoever is going to know or even like what you listen too? Look at the list of sub-genres for prog. I was listening to prog as a teenager in the 70's and didn't even know it! Smile  I just thought it was good old Rock N Roll.
  It seems to me, many people on this forum what it both ways; To be listening to something nobody has ever heard of before, to give them some sense of superiority,  and then have it become popular, to  validate  the fact that they were listening to "cool" music and they are not "weirdos."
 Just put the music on, crank it up, and enjoy.
Genius is always allowed some leeway, once the hammer has

been pried from its hands and the blood has been cleaned up.

- Terry Pratchett
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2008 at 19:13
Dude, I don't know if you've noticed, but no one really thinks about prog like that anymore. When punk came out it was like that for a little bit, but time has shown what is timeless. Most people who hear prog recognize it's quality. What's popular right now is backward.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2008 at 19:48
Most people dont care, but among indie hipsters and the more intelligent metal heads, and especially among  fans of "stoner music" it finds respect
who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2008 at 20:29
Originally posted by laplace laplace wrote:

A lot of metalheads, or at least the ones I used to hang around with, have a sort of private awe and respect for progressive rock but never listen to it themselves. Perhaps it's because they realise their music is just as geeky as ours? ;P

 

Well, back in the early 80’s when I entered to the university, Prog was on their first crisis and Metal wasn’t still as popular as it is today, my poker buddies were the metalheads, we joined in my house or in theirs to play and constantly jammed together.

 

I once replaced the drummer of one of their bands, who had chicken pox, and we played all night good metal, and as a deference they performed with me The Knife (we had only practiced it twice as a joke, but it sounded great).

 

The point is that we had mutual respect for our music, because our common enemy was Disco Music, but even the audience in that show responded very well to The Knife, despite few had heard it previously.

 

One of my good friends who later introduced me o Ozzy and Yngwie, had a real taste for ELP, Rush and Jethro Tull, while I was already a fan of AC/DC, Iron Maiden and Sabbath.

 

I believe more than close taste, we accepted as the only alternatives to Disco fever.


To the public, jazz is laughably insular, classical is music you listen to while you're doing something else, hard rock is for bikers, dance is for E-heads and blues is for old men. But then, who asked them?

 

I don’t like to make generalizations, people has surprised me lots of times with their taste.

 

I once had to take a plane from Juliaca (15,000 feet over sea level) which is the subsidiary of hell, and we were stuck in the plane for hours, I found one of my favorite Peruvian writers (who drinks a lot, so I won’t mention his name).

 

The guy was like 20 years older than me (it was 1999 and I was 35) and we started to talk and drink, in one moment he asked me about the music I heard and I said Progressive Rock, knowing he wouldn’t know, but the guy told me how many times he had seen ELP in London, Yes in Sidney and even went to see The Lamb back in the 70’s when he was a middle age bohemian writer in exile.

 

It was really a pleasant delay, we stayed 5 hours in the plane but talked with the guy about Prog all that time while drinking beer after beer.

 

As I said before, I have a nephew who has borderline intelligence, he’s very slow and influential, but I rarely talk with him, one day visiting his family, he showed me his DVD collection, WOW….It was full of Yes, Kansas, King Crimson, etc, I couldn’t believe it.

 

So don’t believe in generalizations, sometimes people surprises you.

 

Iván

            
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