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Renaissance: Ashes Are Burning

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SteveG View Drop Down
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    Posted: August 22 2018 at 04:53
The second album of the mach2 band with Annie Haslam combines an orchestra with key tracks for the first time and produces a trademark sound. Let's discuss this classic prog album.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2018 at 05:03
In a show from back in the day, Annie described it as the album "that keeps bringing us back to America again and again".  Had the album not done well in America, it's possible the group may have sunk and folded a few years down the line.  It was a game changer for them.  At the same time, it was also nothing like the albums that came afterwards. There was still a strong pastoral flavour on this album (Sean Trane, no fan of Mach II from what I can tell, describes this as the last link to the old Renaissance in his review) and the mood too was still pretty sunny.  Turn of the Cards would establish the quintessential Renaissance sound (George Starostin also calls it the quintessential Renaissance album, while rating Ashes as their best album).

I also think was some of Dunford's strongest songwriting and possibly he was still getting contributions in that department from McCarthy. But Annie wasn't quite 'ready' for this album at this point; not that she's even remotely bad here but would flesh out the emotions on these tracks better in later years.  That is why I have come to prefer live versions of the title track, Carpet as well as Can You Understand and also prefer the few live versions of Let it Grow and At The Harbour that I have heard.  Also, with orchestra playing a minimal role on this album, these tracks translate better to live shows (without orchestra) than the subsequent albums.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2018 at 06:52

For me, it's wonderful balance of classical and folk and the lead off track "Can you Understand?" still gives me goose bumps when I hear Tout's piano intro following the gong!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2018 at 07:22
The track itself was my introduction to Renaissance (apart from Northern Lights when it was in the charts), love the album but I'm not sure if I could separate it from Scheherazade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2018 at 07:23
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

The second album of the mach2 band
 
Mach2 - that's pretty fast!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deafmoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2018 at 07:25
This album is in my Top 10 Prog albums. Though I like Prologue a great deal, particularly for Rajah Khan; Ashes had the band come together with the perfect combination of writing, structure and confidence that carried them forward and set the tone for the next several albums. After the Big 6 Classic Prog Bands, Renaissance was right there! Haslam's voice is just an instrument of beauty. And every musician in that band was extremely high caliber. I really miss the fluidity of playing from Camp and sadly Tout and Dunford have left us too soon. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2018 at 09:39
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

The second album of the mach2 band
 
Mach2 - that's pretty fast!
I picked that up from ken Levine. I like to use mark 2 myself, but when in Rome..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2018 at 09:42
Mach 2 ain't stratospheric enough for Annie.  She'll get there and with ease.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2018 at 09:42
The title track, I'm afraid to say, never really did much for me. However, I couldn't imagine Renaissance ending a concert without playing an extended Ashes are Burning, with Annie doing that thing she does.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2018 at 09:49
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

The title track, I'm afraid to say, never really did much for me. However, I couldn't imagine Renaissance ending a concert without playing an extended Ashes are Burning, with Annie doing that thing she does.

Wow, I love that track.  Of course, the live version makes it even more special. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2018 at 11:56
A great album....what else needs to be said...? But personally I have always liked 'Turn Of The Cards' better.
The 1st one I bought was 'Prologue'....liked the weird cover at the record store at college.....went back many years later and bought the early ones with the original band.
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2018 at 13:05
My favourite album from the band is Turn of the Cards... but any of the 3 studio albums I have (Ashes, Cards and Scheherazade), plus the Carnegie Hall one, is just about as good. Still, I much prefer the Ashes are Burning song on Carnegie Hall over the studio version.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Squonk19 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2018 at 14:16
A classic album, although I also have a preference for Turn of the Cards. Carnegie remains one of the best live albums ever and many of the tracks covered gain something extra live. Annie's voice does amaze me at times!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hellogoodbye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2018 at 14:33
I prefer Scheherazade, but it's a very close second.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2018 at 14:45
I haven't heard it in a long time but I remember liking it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2018 at 21:23
Originally posted by Squonk19 Squonk19 wrote:

A classic album, although I also have a preference for Turn of the Cards. Carnegie remains one of the best live albums ever and many of the tracks covered gain something extra live. Annie's voice does amaze me at times!


Indeed the songs gain something, though I can't really point it. In other band's live songs, I can hear more energy, extended solos, something different, that in many cases make the songs better (or worse, even). But in Carnegie Hall the songs are played almost excatly as they are in the studio albums (except for Ashes are Burning, of course), yet they do sound better to me... like more organic, warmer, but I can't really point it out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2018 at 21:51
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by Squonk19 Squonk19 wrote:

A classic album, although I also have a preference for Turn of the Cards. Carnegie remains one of the best live albums ever and many of the tracks covered gain something extra live. Annie's voice does amaze me at times!


Indeed the songs gain something, though I can't really point it. In other band's live songs, I can hear more energy, extended solos, something different, that in many cases make the songs better (or worse, even). But in Carnegie Hall the songs are played almost excatly as they are in the studio albums (except for Ashes are Burning, of course), yet they do sound better to me... like more organic, warmer, but I can't really point it out.


Well, for one, they play Carpet faster at LATC and many shows up to the mid 70s than the recording. Did that with other songs off other albums like Running Hard as well. And Annie sings the songs better live which probably lifts the band as well. You should especially check out live performances of Day of the Dreamer. There is almost a call response going on between Annie's vocal delivery and Camp's basslines in the middle verse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2018 at 15:22
I love the breakdown section of the title track. It's both light hearted and dark at the same time somehow. Oh, and the guitar solo is just incredible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2018 at 21:27
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by Squonk19 Squonk19 wrote:

A classic album, although I also have a preference for Turn of the Cards. Carnegie remains one of the best live albums ever and many of the tracks covered gain something extra live. Annie's voice does amaze me at times!


Indeed the songs gain something, though I can't really point it. In other band's live songs, I can hear more energy, extended solos, something different, that in many cases make the songs better (or worse, even). But in Carnegie Hall the songs are played almost excatly as they are in the studio albums (except for Ashes are Burning, of course), yet they do sound better to me... like more organic, warmer, but I can't really point it out.


Well, for one, they play Carpet faster at LATC and many shows up to the mid 70s than the recording. Did that with other songs off other albums like Running Hard as well. And Annie sings the songs better live which probably lifts the band as well. You should especially check out live performances of Day of the Dreamer. There is almost a call response going on between Annie's vocal delivery and Camp's basslines in the middle verse.


I think those particular ones that were played faster are the ones I actually prefer on their studio versions, though I hadn't really noticed that difference. And yeah, Annie's singing is better too. I guess it's weird for a rock singer to actually sing better on their concerts than on studio. I guess another one capable of doing that is Jon Anderson.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2018 at 04:23
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by Squonk19 Squonk19 wrote:

A classic album, although I also have a preference for Turn of the Cards. Carnegie remains one of the best live albums ever and many of the tracks covered gain something extra live. Annie's voice does amaze me at times!


Indeed the songs gain something, though I can't really point it. In other band's live songs, I can hear more energy, extended solos, something different, that in many cases make the songs better (or worse, even). But in Carnegie Hall the songs are played almost excatly as they are in the studio albums (except for Ashes are Burning, of course), yet they do sound better to me... like more organic, warmer, but I can't really point it out.


Well, for one, they play Carpet faster at LATC and many shows up to the mid 70s than the recording. Did that with other songs off other albums like Running Hard as well. And Annie sings the songs better live which probably lifts the band as well. You should especially check out live performances of Day of the Dreamer. There is almost a call response going on between Annie's vocal delivery and Camp's basslines in the middle verse.


I think those particular ones that were played faster are the ones I actually prefer on their studio versions, though I hadn't really noticed that difference. And yeah, Annie's singing is better too. I guess it's weird for a rock singer to actually sing better on their concerts than on studio. I guess another one capable of doing that is Jon Anderson.


The ones with kinda wobbly technique like AXL are the ones who may not fare so well live vis a vis the studio. In heavy metal too, like Annie, the singers can often produce better live versions. Because you need solid fundamentals to be able to belt out notes cleanly in terms fifth octave without resorting to shrieky rasps. I don't know whether you are into Black Sabbath, but on Live Evil, Dio breaks into high melismas on the chorus of Children of the Sea and it's beautiful. Jeff Buckley was also terrific live.
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