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Tom Ozric View Drop Down
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    Posted: February 23 2019 at 13:59
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Bill Andrew (Death 1987-1990) is the most archetypal-good-enough-metal-drummer that ever existed.
His snare sound on Leprosy is hideous.
Aren't things supposed to sound hideous in death metal?
That may be so, but that big, gated reverb sound has dated it badly. The drums should sound tighter, and the bass drums punchier, and clicky, but there are parts of beauty to be found amongs all the brutality here too (and that’s not just Opeth).


Correct. Funny you mention Leprosy, that drum sound is EXACTLY what I was talking about. The reverb is so bad it sounds like it was recorded IN a metal foundry. If that was the goal, they nailed it. Bill Andrews and Terry Butler both suck immensely as a rhythm section, death metal or not. Chuck had to play all the bass lines on Leprosy because Butler was so inept. Good riddance to that terrible line up.
I don’t have all the Death albums, but Leprosy is the weakest so far. SBG is better, as is Symbolic and HIP.
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Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Roger Taylor was better than it seems, it's not that easy to play those quirky Mercury songs from the golden era.


He is a good drummer but for me he always has a terrible drum sound, particulary the snare.
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Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Bill Andrew (Death 1987-1990) is the most archetypal-good-enough-metal-drummer that ever existed.
His snare sound on Leprosy is hideous.
Aren't things supposed to sound hideous in death metal?
That may be so, but that big, gated reverb sound has dated it badly. The drums should sound tighter, and the bass drums punchier, and clicky, but there are parts of beauty to be found amongs all the brutality here too (and that’s not just Opeth).

Correct. Funny you mention Leprosy, that drum sound is EXACTLY what I was talking about. The reverb is so bad it sounds like it was recorded IN a metal foundry. If that was the goal, they nailed it. Bill Andrews and Terry Butler both suck immensely as a rhythm section, death metal or not. Chuck had to play all the bass lines on Leprosy because Butler was so inept. Good riddance to that terrible line up.

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Danny Carey is actually very good, I'm not a Tool listener but Carey is very talented. 

A bad drummer means, to me, they cannot keep time or rhythm with the bass player. This would throw off the whole band in most cases, a band would notice this quickly and make changes. 

Nick Mason was an excellent percussionist, I don't regard him as a stellar drummer but he does other things that made impact to Pink Floyd music. His sound is what I really enjoy, he has a deep emotional drum sound.
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Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

To me, Moon is like a guitarist that just can't come out of "lead" mode. Every song is like a drum solo beginning to end with just enough foundation to keep the band happy. While it might seem tough for the guitars to imagine playing with a drummer like that, once used to it, I bet it was somewhat liberating for everyone.  One of the things I love about The Who.


Have to agree with this as by the time the band reached the Who Are You album, Keith was a sorry, spent force barely capable of following even his own chaotic inner pulse.

Good bands with bad drummers?

Queen - Roger Taylor
Pink Floyd - Nick Mason
Velvet Underground - Maureen Tucker
the Cure - Lol Tolhurst
Talking Heads - Chris Frantz

Bad bands with good drummers?

Tool - Danny Carey

What makes Tool a bad band ?? And yes, Danny is great !!
Oh, you mention Nick Mason - he ain’t the most technical drummer out there, but he’s a perfect fit for Floyd. I recall back when I was 15, watching Live at Pompeii, and thinking ‘whoa, this is the best drummer I’ve ever seen/heard’......I wouldn’t call him ‘bad’ at all.

Edited by Tom Ozric - February 22 2019 at 18:17
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Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Bill Andrew (Death 1987-1990) is the most archetypal-good-enough-metal-drummer that ever existed.
His snare sound on Leprosy is hideous.
Aren't things supposed to sound hideous in death metal?
That may be so, but that big, gated reverb sound has dated it badly. The drums should sound tighter, and the bass drums punchier, and clicky, but there are parts of beauty to be found amongs all the brutality here too (and that’s not just Opeth).
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Points: 5111 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2019 at 17:27
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Bill Andrew (Death 1987-1990) is the most archetypal-good-enough-metal-drummer that ever existed.
His snare sound on Leprosy is hideous.
Aren't things supposed to sound hideous in death metal?
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Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

To me, Moon is like a guitarist that just can't come out of "lead" mode. Every song is like a drum solo beginning to end with just enough foundation to keep the band happy. While it might seem tough for the guitars to imagine playing with a drummer like that, once used to it, I bet it was somewhat liberating for everyone.  One of the things I love about The Who.


Have to agree with this as by the time the band reached the Who Are You album, Keith was a sorry, spent force barely capable of following even his own chaotic inner pulse.

Good bands with bad drummers?

Queen - Roger Taylor
Pink Floyd - Nick Mason
Velvet Underground - Maureen Tucker
the Cure - Lol Tolhurst
Talking Heads - Chris Frantz

Bad bands with good drummers?

Tool - Danny Carey


Edited by ExittheLemming - February 22 2019 at 17:40
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Tom Ozric View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Bill Andrew (Death 1987-1990) is the most archetypal-good-enough-metal-drummer that ever existed.
His snare sound on Leprosy is hideous.
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Originally posted by Icarium Icarium wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

I also think Ringo was very mediocre
 
That's an often repeated opinion, but I've yet to come across a drummer who can play "Ticket to Ride" or "Get Back" anything near the way Ringo played them.


I have seen many clips by Sina and she is one of the finest drummers on youtube, perhaps the most vercetile ive ever seen in a long time









She can't seem to grasp the middle section (after the halt) on "Roundabout" correctly, the timing, etc., but she's good for her age.
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Roger Taylor was better than it seems, it's not that easy to play those quirky Mercury songs from the golden era.
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I think i like Roger Tylor more live than on album. He sounds dull on album but when one see him live one realise hes a great drummer.
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Ringo Starr was a good drummer!

About the Ringo solo in The End. It was not a real solo. He did not want to do it. So they deceived him. They did a piece playing guitar solos (as we hear in Anthology 3) and Ringo accompanied the solos. Then they removed the guitar solo from the mix, so that only the Ringo drums could be heard. And here's to you the Ringo solo.
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I was going to mention Mick Pointer too, he is very solid but lacks finesse and inspiration.

The most ruined albums because of poor drums were all those guitar shredder heroes albums from the 80s and 90s where only the guitarist was killer but had terrible rhythm sections, some even drum machines (Satrianis and co).
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Bill Andrew (Death 1987-1990) is the most archetypal-good-enough-metal-drummer that ever existed.

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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Marillion's first drummer, Mick Pointer, was apparently let go because he wasn't very good. I think he improved later on with Arena though. I haven't heard that first album in a long time so can't really comment much but that's what I've heard. 


There was a rather interesting thread on him called "Mick Pointer: Great drummer or GREATEST drummer?" http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37632

12 years ago already? Seems much more recent to me. Time flies when you're having "stun".
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Originally posted by Icarium Icarium wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

[QUOTE=dr wu23]
I also think Ringo was very mediocre
 
That's an often repeated opinion, but I've yet to come across a drummer who can play "Ticket to Ride" or "Get Back" anything near the way Ringo played them.


I have seen many clips by Sina and she is one of the finest drummers on youtube, perhaps the most vercetile ive ever seen in a long time
/QUOTE]
I'm sure there are drummers who can play them (I can't see any of these videos as YouTube is blocked at work). My point is that his drumming is more complex than a lot of people think.
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To me, Moon is like a guitarist that just can't come out of "lead" mode. Every song is like a drum solo beginning to end with just enough foundation to keep the band happy. While it might seem tough for the guitars to imagine playing with a drummer like that, once used to it, I bet it was somewhat liberating for everyone.  One of the things I love about The Who.
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Marillion's first drummer, Mick Pointer, was apparently let go because he wasn't very good. I think he improved later on with Arena though. I haven't heard that first album in a long time so can't really comment much but that's what I've heard. 
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Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:



I'm also going to stick my neck out here and mention Keith Moon. He's not bad as such, but he's often credited with being in the same league as Bonham et al, and he's really not. He's very entertaining and played with great energy, but could be quite messy at times with dubious time keeping.
 
Moony is in a class of his own, whether it's a good one or a bad one I'm not sure. If you watch him play, even his style and the way he holds the sticks is weird. I just say he has a unique style. I've just read Daltrey's autobiography and he does says how wrong it felt playing with Kenney Jones after Moon died.
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