Quality vs Quantity |
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14639 |
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The difference is that Genesis making an album that I don't like will not cost me any money, not occupy any space in my collection, and not even cost me more than half an hour of time after which I'll probably stop listening. Sports is inherently competitive and somebody who isn't up for the job anymore takes the space of somebody else in a team, which can be bad. But the once legendary band producing a supposedly bad album doesn't do any harm. Surely it doesn't make me unlisten their earlier stuff that I liked. So in Genesis vs Anglagard Genesis wins 7:3 (say - I haven't re-evaluated all these albums for writing this posting), and the stuff that they did later which I can do very well without doesn't bother me in the least for this comparison.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17370 |
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Hi, The point is, that many of these folks are scared of doing their own thing, and since they can't, they would rather trash someone else because this makes their "opinion" more important than the music. I disagree. The music, is far more important than any external opinion. That is NEVER to say that someone's comments do not have any weigh or strength ... but it is to say, that the person over there with the courage to do the work, is the one that is showing the music! As a writer, for example, I do not write for anyone's comments, although there are a few people here whose comments I happen to appreciate and take them to heart! What I write is from the inside, via the inside WITH the words of the inside ... and as such someone saying it is not right, or they don't like it ... doesn't matter to me! It's my child! And just because it's color is not the same you or others see, some folks will think it is wrong, or bad. That is gross, and inappropriate under any condition. The life of the arts, for hundreds of years would not have survived if it were not for some internal constitution that helped bring it about ... and no one can tell me that music is any different!
Exactly my point. These folks proclaim to be progressive in their views about the music, but they are always ready to put someone down, and not help the band along, because it sounds like this or that ... now the thread about that one band that has been about for 20 plus years is that it sounds like PF ... so do many other bands that use the same instruments ... c'mon ... go to Guitar Center and see what you can buy! I will joke about the Sunday Morning Rock Constitutionals with Neal Morse, but that is not a put down ... in many ways, it is a chance for many of us ... to go and do something nice that is worth believing in ... at least in theory! But sitting here and putting down composers for their supposed "quality", or "quantity" is utterly ridiculous ... heck ... there is not a composer, writer, or painter, that does not have bagatelles in their closet! (Definition on the net ... a short, light piece of music, especially one for the piano. Or guitar!)
Edited by moshkito - August 20 2020 at 17:32 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12695 |
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If Yes had called it quits after Drama, then I would have missed many great songs that I love, like Be The One, Mind Drive (at least half of the song), Endless Dream, The More we Live, Birthright, Shock to the System, Spririt of Survival, Dreamtime, In the Presence of, and even Owner of a Lonely Heart (as well as some of my favourite versions of their classic songs that were played in the 90's). Actually, they would have had to quit before Tormato. And for me, many of the albums done after the 70's actually have as many songs that I love as their 70's albums (the only albums that I love as a whole from them are Fragile and CttE). Still, Yes are my second favourite band, because those 2 albums are so great that they deserve it, and all the bunch of songs they have doned besides those 2 albums make a really wonderful collection of music that I have to go back to often enough. |
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Psychedelic Paul
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Offline Points: 39362 |
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^ I totally agree. If Drama had been the last Yes album, then I would have missed out on so many great Yes albums that followed it, including 90125, ABWH, Talk, The Ladder, Magnification, Fly from Here, and Heaven & Earth.
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chopper
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 20023 |
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Exactly, not to mention that 90125 is their biggest selling album I believe
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17370 |
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Hi, I just have to ask ... why does the biggest selling album is important in a discussion of "quality vs quantity"? Again, is all we can talk about just commercial success because we don't believe in things that we think are not right or good? I happen not to thing that album is very good, and is one of the few of their albums I DO NOT HAVE!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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chopper
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 20023 |
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I'm just saying that stopping Yes after Drama would have wiped out their biggest selling album. It's not my favourite Yes album either but quality is subjective and the fact that it's their biggest seller means it would possibly be voted top in a worldwide poll and a lot of people would say it's their highest quality album.
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2830 |
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Anything that is not "quality" is not "music", in my book.
It's "product". |
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Awesoreno
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 07 2019 Location: Culver City, CA Status: Offline Points: 3036 |
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I would tend to agree, but just to play devil's advocate: is one person's product another person's music?
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ssmarcus
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 05 2019 Location: Israel Status: Offline Points: 261 |
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This is actually an excellent point and I had to think about it for a bit. While you almost had me, I am still maintining my conetntion. True, in sports, a player passed his prime being cynically brought onto the field by some last place team looking to cash in is hurting the game by replacing a spot for a more competitive player. And this is not the case for a musician taking up space on a stage, exactly like you said. But that is not quite my point. Simply stated, if you agree that a player or artist's legacy should consider the sum total of their work, then repeated and consistently poor performances for the sake of money, especially after the artist's or player's peak has passed, will hurt that legacy. FYI, Rick Wakeman agrees with me (kind of) "I always said that I never want to walk onstage and not play to the standard I want to. I don’t want anyone to applaud anything I do because of what I used to do, so there comes a time to stop.": https://www.loudersound.com/news/rick-wakeman-the-yes-name-should-have-been-retired-when-chris-squire-died#:~:text=News-,Rick%20Wakeman%3A%20The%20Yes%20name%20should%20have,retired%20when%20Chris%20Squire%20died&text=%2FWireImage%20%2D%20Getty)-,Rick%20Wakeman%20says%20it%20would%20have%20been%20%E2%80%9Cthe%20decent%20thing,bassist%20Chris%20Squire%20in%202015. |
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ssmarcus
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 05 2019 Location: Israel Status: Offline Points: 261 |
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So you guys are basically agreeing with me. You're saying that Yes' later career output WAS quality and therefore their legacy is not watered down at all. As I've clarified a few times already in different words, I don't care what you think about Yes. I am simply stating that however you evaluate a band's legacy (as subjective of an exercise as that may be), consistency across and concentration of quality matter. And given that you guys do indeed like Yes' output across all eras, you're agreeing with me.
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chopper
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 20023 |
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That's basically what I'm saying but you did kind of suggest that you thought they should have knocked it on the head after "Drama" when you said "Think about how much more mythical Yes' legacy would be had they done that" then later suggested they should have given up after "Magnification ("the damage they did in the 90's").
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Prog-jester
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 05 2005 Location: Love Beach Status: Offline Points: 5863 |
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Quality of course. The more albums a band produces the more it tends to repeat themselves. And rare exceptions like Bowie-type chameleons only confirm the rule. I mean if you're not a die-hard fan of a certain sound and don't limit yourself with one genre, do you really need ALL Motorhead, AC/DC or Rick Wakeman albums?
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dr prog
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 25 2010 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 2470 |
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Quality all the way. Give me a 2 minute gem over a 20 minute borefest
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All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17370 |
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Hi, "Borefest's" ... are not that bad ... in the old days when you were stoned immaculate at the Fillmore, all the "borefests" were far out ... and no one has ever complained about The Grateful Dead ... maybe because they were far richer than anyone else ... and they couldn't careless about the comments anyway. They still played and did their thing ... and while I'm not a great fan, they have, in every concert, some really fine moments! I think that "commercial music" has taken away the ability of a lot of "fans" to enjoy music ... and I kinda see folks that say that about "borefests" as someone that will not appreciate classical music later in their life ... and find some far out and wonderful things done with it ... and rock music tried ... were it not that we now consider "progressive" anyone that develops something from a riff only ... and then the whole piece still has exactly the same parts as any song listed in the top ten! To me, THAT is a borefest ... continually doing the same thing ... over and over ... and it's about time that drummers go back to school to learn how to "accent" the music, not just playing a beat straight through it and make it sound .... the same ... and expect the lyrics to bring it alive. This kind of thing is by far the poorest of all "progressive" bands, many of which are listed here. They deserve their mention and nickel, but perhaps not within a "progressive" mold since what they do is not progressive at all! Quality is about developing something different and doing it well ... or you can give that guitarist a 9th string so he can solo even longer! AND he still won't be able to be as good as Egberto Gismonti was!
Edited by moshkito - August 24 2020 at 16:52 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Psychedelic Paul
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Offline Points: 39362 |
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Coming back to the subject of Yes - and why not - my two all-time favourite Yes albums were released in the 1990's:- Talk (1994) and The Ladder (1999). I could go on, so I will. The three most recent albums by Yes: Magnification (2001); Fly from Here (2011); and Heaven & Earth (2014), are all far more preferable to my ears than the two classic Yes albums: Topographic Oceans (1973) and Relayer (1974), and I mean that most sincerely folks, as Hughie Green of Opportunity Knocks used to say.
Edited by Psychedelic Paul - August 24 2020 at 17:17 |
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Shadowyzard
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 24 2020 Location: Davutlar Status: Offline Points: 4506 |
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Quality over quantity, of course.
Yet I wouldn't complain if an artist/band is/are very productive, albeit still inspired. |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65152 |
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Tall order to have both. Tull largely pulled it off; Genesis; the Beatles.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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dr prog
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 25 2010 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 2470 |
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As long as I enjoy the composition then I’m fine with a 15 minute song. If it’s just a very simple melody then I’ll be bored. There has to be some complexity and cleverness to keep me interested |
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All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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A Crimson Mellotron
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 10 2020 Location: Bulgaria Status: Offline Points: 3997 |
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Has to be quality but it is a very tricky question. Would you rather prefer your favorite band to have 5 stellar studio albums out of 20, or a band that released 5 albums and they were all pretty good? However, if a band can manage to handle both then I'm in. Still, if I like only one album by a band that has released more than 15, then what? Does that matter to anyone? I guess it would be a 'me' issue, so... It's a pretty damn endless topic
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