Tolkien in Prog

My personal favorites would have to be:

In Elven Lands- The Fellowship (with Jon Anderson)
Nightfall in Middle Earth- Blind Guardian

Eärendil wrote: J.R.R. Tolkien has had an immense influence on popular culture, especially on music. And what genre is most likely to take inspiration from elves and magic rings? If you answered prog rock, then you would be correct. (Well, maybe prog rock and power metal).  So this is a thread to talk about your favorite Tolkien-based prog albums.

 

Edited by moshkito - November 09 2010 at 20:50

moshkito wrote: Eärendil wrote: J.R.R. Tolkien has had an immense influence on popular culture, especially on music. And what genre is most likely to take inspiration from elves and magic rings? If you answered prog rock, then you would be correct. (Well, maybe prog rock and power metal).  So this is a thread to talk about your favorite Tolkien-based prog albums.   BS ... he's influenced more dope/drinking people than ever ... and if you think the movie audience did any better, you're kidding me, right?   There were some folks that did nice things with it, and not always directly. The one that is most clear and open, was Bo Hansson.   It did have some other things that weren't great, but they were nice. The cartoonist Bashki did a version of the Rings that was actually rather nice, though he had to condense the whole thing to an hour and a half. The cartoon itself was really nice, though the music in it was not.   The book that really had more music influenced to it and by it, was actually a take on an English novel called "The Snow Goose", which Camel later interpreted beautifully only to have it get totally trashed by the rock music military militia that thinks that rock music has to have lyrics and be a 3 minute song and Camel never really survived, their single greatest piece of music ever. A beautiful soundtrack. The American version was Jonathan Livingston Seagull, since in America we don't like imports and no one is going to read The Snow Goose as it is too long! ... and the America version reads in 90 minutes!   It was similar to the "new age" thing ... just as many people wanted to have nothing to do with it as otherwise, and the artistry in most cases was questionable.   The one thing that is bizarre, that had a much bigger impact in "progressive" and other strange music, that most you folks are scared to discuss is the much more obvious influence of drugs and the discussion of Carlos Castaneda ... whose works influenced many bands, that kinda took it to heart very quickly ... but when you all in PA stop being afraid of discussing literature, magick and mind, let me know!

I thought this thread is about prog albums influenced by Tolkien. This is totally going in some other direction.

moshkito wrote: Eärendil wrote: J.R.R. Tolkien has had an immense influence on popular culture, especially on music. And what genre is most likely to take inspiration from elves and magic rings? If you answered prog rock, then you would be correct. (Well, maybe prog rock and power metal).  So this is a thread to talk about your favorite Tolkien-based prog albums.   BS ... he's influenced more dope/drinking people than ever ... and if you think the movie audience did any better, you're kidding me, right?   There were some folks that did nice things with it, and not always directly. The one that is most clear and open, was Bo Hansson.   It did have some other things that weren't great, but they were nice. The cartoonist Bashki did a version of the Rings that was actually rather nice, though he had to condense the whole thing to an hour and a half. The cartoon itself was really nice, though the music in it was not.   The book that really had more music influenced to it and by it, was actually a take on an English novel called "The Snow Goose", which Camel later interpreted beautifully only to have it get totally trashed by the rock music military militia that thinks that rock music has to have lyrics and be a 3 minute song and Camel never really survived, their single greatest piece of music ever. A beautiful soundtrack. The American version was Jonathan Livingston Seagull, since in America we don't like imports and no one is going to read The Snow Goose as it is too long! ... and the America version reads in 90 minutes!   It was similar to the "new age" thing ... just as many people wanted to have nothing to do with it as otherwise, and the artistry in most cases was questionable.   The one thing that is bizarre, that had a much bigger impact in "progressive" and other strange music, that most you folks are scared to discuss is the much more obvious influence of drugs and the discussion of Carlos Castaneda ... whose works influenced many bands, that kinda took it to heart very quickly ... but when you all in PA stop being afraid of discussing literature, magick and mind, let me know!

Okay, then...apparently it falls to me to bring this derailed thread back on track.

I tend to be very protective of Tolkien.  I'm a devout fan of his work, ranging from Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion to the more obscure and quixotic Histories of Middle Earth; as such I tend to be pretty critical of artistic reinterpretations or representations of his world and text. 

Now don't get me wrong.  I love a good, heavy, crushing guitar line as much as the next pervy Hobbit fancier.  I had my period of Hammerfall obsession, and I even went so far as to pick up Blind Guardian's Nightfall In Middle-Earth when I was a much younger, much more naive prog fan.  I realized pretty damn quickly that setting the mythology of Tolkien's obsessively detailed, perfectly aesthetic world to a heavy metal power-chord orgy was complete anathema to me.  I gave the album to a friend of mine, who also hated it.  Similarly I tried and tried and tried to get into Glass Hammer's Middle-Earth Album, and failed miserably; of course, that could have something to do with the fact that I actively dislike pretty much everything Glass Hammer has ever recorded.<---(my reaction to most contemporary symphonic prog.)

As a result of my Blind Guardian-related disillusionment, I tend to be pretty leery of Tolkien-influenced music, especially where metal is involved...I can't help but visualize a gathering of peaceful, merry Hobbits clutching  their hands over their ears and wailing with fright.  Similarly, imagining a bunch of headbanging Norsemen in a Rohirric mead hall gives me gas.  I do enjoy some of the subtler, more fluid Tolkien-inspired prog: a classic example of this would be Nimrodel/The Procession/The White Rider by Camel, which benefits from not going overboard on the lyrics.  Similarly, I enjoy the way Led Zeppelin peppers their lyrics with Middle-Earth imagery, and The Necromancer by Rush is a great example of paying tribute without making said tribute comical or thunderous.  Or both.

Really I genuinely believe that Middle-Earth does not rock in the slightest.  There is nothing progressive, nothing brash or rebellious about Tolkien's narrative; rather we have a return to pre-Industrial simplicities and ideals.  There is a teleology at play which defies rock n' roll, not to mention automobiles and smokestacks and every other modernist trapping.  Tolkien rock feels alien, and wrong, and very misguided, at least to this joint Tolkienist and progressive rock devotee.  However, it also kind of makes me feel a little warm and fuzzy inside.  I love watching people who love a text interact with that text, whether their interaction takes the form of a simple blog post or a sprawling double-album replete with a gatefold designed to imitate the Book of Mazarbul.

Also, just on a closing note, is there some reason that no one ever records prog songs about Hobbits?  Everyone is so busy writing about Elves, and Dark Lords, and battles, and swords, that they miss what's really important in Tolkien's work: tiny little people with hairy feet and huge appetites and wills of tempered steel.

EDIT:  Anyone who thinks that Ralph Bakshi's horrible, horrible animated Lord of the Rings even remotely approaches the glory and eucatastrophe of Tolkien's masterpiece should be fed to a fuzzy-slipper-wearing Balrog.  Give me the animated Rankin-Bass Return of the King before you force me to endure such blinding crap.



Edited by Lozlan - November 09 2010 at 11:03

Eärendil wrote: moshkito wrote: Eärendil wrote: J.R.R. Tolkien has had an immense influence on popular culture, especially on music. And what genre is most likely to take inspiration from elves and magic rings? If you answered prog rock, then you would be correct. (Well, maybe prog rock and power metal).  So this is a thread to talk about your favorite Tolkien-based prog albums.   BS ... he's influenced more dope/drinking people than ever ... and if you think the movie audience did any better, you're kidding me, right?   There were some folks that did nice things with it, and not always directly. The one that is most clear and open, was Bo Hansson.   It did have some other things that weren't great, but they were nice. The cartoonist Bashki did a version of the Rings that was actually rather nice, though he had to condense the whole thing to an hour and a half. The cartoon itself was really nice, though the music in it was not.   The book that really had more music influenced to it and by it, was actually a take on an English novel called "The Snow Goose", which Camel later interpreted beautifully only to have it get totally trashed by the rock music military militia that thinks that rock music has to have lyrics and be a 3 minute song and Camel never really survived, their single greatest piece of music ever. A beautiful soundtrack. The American version was Jonathan Livingston Seagull, since in America we don't like imports and no one is going to read The Snow Goose as it is too long! ... and the America version reads in 90 minutes!   It was similar to the "new age" thing ... just as many people wanted to have nothing to do with it as otherwise, and the artistry in most cases was questionable.   The one thing that is bizarre, that had a much bigger impact in "progressive" and other strange music, that most you folks are scared to discuss is the much more obvious influence of drugs and the discussion of Carlos Castaneda ... whose works influenced many bands, that kinda took it to heart very quickly ... but when you all in PA stop being afraid of discussing literature, magick and mind, let me know! Have you actually read The Lord of the Rings or the Silmarillion? They are true works of art.  Yes, they were immensely popular within the hippie movement as well as now from the films, which is what I already said.  I don't see what your rant has to do with this thread at all.  If you're so bitter that you want to stereotype people and go on about how everyone is stupid, then go ahead, but don't do it here.

Don't mind moshkito. He's a master of thinking WAY too much into things.

I've yet to find a good interpretation of Tolkien in prog, given that I dont like Rush and Camel, and Glass Hammers Middle Earth album is pretty widely derided. The Blind Guardian attempt is really cheesy so I guess that just leaves Bo Hansson, who I've yet to hear.

Almost forgot, The Gatherings Sand and Mercury ends with a Tolkien narrative on TLotR, and that works very well for what is a great song.

Edited by sleeper - November 09 2010 at 11:48

I haven't really listened to any Tolkien based prog albums.  I do like particular songs that have to do with LOTR, The Hobbit, and Tolkiens other works.  

Lozlan wrote: Okay, then...apparently it falls to me to bring this derailed thread back on track. I tend to be very protective of Tolkien.  I'm a devout fan of his work, ranging from Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion to the more obscure and quixotic Histories of Middle Earth; as such I tend to be pretty critical of artistic reinterpretations or representations of his world and text.  Now don't get me wrong.  I love a good, heavy, crushing guitar line as much as the next pervy Hobbit fancier.  I had my period of Hammerfall obsession, and I even went so far as to pick up Blind Guardian's Nightfall In Middle-Earth when I was a much younger, much more naive prog fan.  I realized pretty damn quickly that setting the mythology of Tolkien's obsessively detailed, perfectly aesthetic world to a heavy metal power-chord orgy was complete anathema to me.  I gave the album to a friend of mine, who also hated it.  Similarly I tried and tried and tried to get into Glass Hammer's Middle-Earth Album, and failed miserably; of course, that could have something to do with the fact that I actively dislike pretty much everything Glass Hammer has ever recorded.<---(my reaction to most contemporary symphonic prog.) As a result of my Blind Guardian-related disillusionment, I tend to be pretty leery of Tolkien-influenced music, especially where metal is involved...I can't help but visualize a gathering of peaceful, merry Hobbits clutching  their hands over their ears and wailing with fright.  Similarly, imagining a bunch of headbanging Norsemen in a Rohirric mead hall gives me gas.  I do enjoy some of the subtler, more fluid Tolkien-inspired prog: a classic example of this would be Nimrodel/The Procession/The White Rider by Camel, which benefits from not going overboard on the lyrics.  Similarly, I enjoy the way Led Zeppelin peppers their lyrics with Middle-Earth imagery, and The Necromancer by Rush is a great example of paying tribute without making said tribute comical or thunderous.  Or both. Really I genuinely believe that Middle-Earth does not rock in the slightest.  There is nothing progressive, nothing brash or rebellious about Tolkien's narrative; rather we have a return to pre-Industrial simplicities and ideals.  There is a teleology at play which defies rock n' roll, not to mention automobiles and smokestacks and every other modernist trapping.  Tolkien rock feels alien, and wrong, and very misguided, at least to this joint Tolkienist and progressive rock devotee.  However, it also kind of makes me feel a little warm and fuzzy inside.  I love watching people who love a text interact with that text, whether their interaction takes the form of a simple blog post or a sprawling double-album replete with a gatefold designed to imitate the Book of Mazarbul. Also, just on a closing note, is there some reason that no one ever records prog songs about Hobbits?  Everyone is so busy writing about Elves, and Dark Lords, and battles, and swords, that they miss what's really important in Tolkien's work: tiny little people with hairy feet and huge appetites and wills of tempered steel. EDIT:  Anyone who thinks that Ralph Bakshi's horrible, horrible animated Lord of the Rings even remotely approaches the glory and eucatastrophe of Tolkien's masterpiece should be fed to a fuzzy-slipper-wearing Balrog.  Give me the animated Rankin-Bass Return of the King before you force me to endure such blinding crap.

I agree with you, but I think albums like Nightfall definitely are more inspired by Middle-Earth than accurately describing it at all.  There's a group called the Tolkien Ensemble that has set all of the poems and songs from the books- every single one- to music. It's actually pretty original for having the lyrics already written.

moshkito wrote: Eärendil wrote: J.R.R. Tolkien has had an immense influence on popular culture, especially on music. And what genre is most likely to take inspiration from elves and magic rings? If you answered prog rock, then you would be correct. (Well, maybe prog rock and power metal).  So this is a thread to talk about your favorite Tolkien-based prog albums.   BS . () .. he's influenced more dope/drinking people than ever ... and if you think the movie audience did any better, you're kidding me, right?   There were some folks that did nice things with it, and not always directly. The one that is most clear and open, was Bo Hansson.   (Parts of the post removed, since it indeed went off the track -- my apologies --  ... and for the record, at the time I did not speak enough English to be able to read that book at all. I did read it later, and I guess I would think that C.S. Lewis, Dion Fortune, Aleister Crowley, Carlos Castaneda, and a lot of other more mystical work was more important to me. In the end, Tolkien's work is a wonderful story ... that has unbelievably good creativity and visual content, the likes of which was not even found in the European history of so many fables in the past 500 years -- many of which went on to inspire "progressive music" by more than one band.)

I like this comment more.   No hard feelings. I've read some of their stuff too for the record.


Edited by Eärendil - November 09 2010 at 20:58