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harmonium.ro View Drop Down

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Posted: January 07 2011 at 12:43

I am eternally grateful to punk for giving us the subsequent three decades of alternative rock, my favourite genre in music, but I don't listen to it and I don't think I'll ever will. Tongue

spookytooth View Drop Down

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Posted: January 07 2011 at 12:45

I like a good amount of punk, and I certainly love it's offshoots like hardcore and post-punk very much. Some of the punk/hardcore/post-punk bands I listen to would be: Joy Division, Public Image Ltd., Wire, Television (Marquee Moon is one of my favorite albums ever), Discharge, The Exploited, Sub-Humans, and the list goes on...

Also going with other people on here: I absolutely can not stand that stupid myth of punk killing prog, and it's nice to see that most people on this site don't believe that garbage.

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Would you like some Bailey's?

The T

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Posted: January 07 2011 at 13:01

I can't stand most of it.

stonebeard View Drop Down

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Posted: January 07 2011 at 13:14

Equality 7-2521 wrote:

I like a lot of the precursors and outgrowths of punk, but I'm not much of a fan of the pure genre.

So much this.

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Tapfret

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Posted: January 07 2011 at 14:00

spookytooth wrote:

Also going with other people on here: I absolutely can not stand that stupid myth of punk killing prog, and it's nice to see that most people on this site don't believe that garbage.

English (auto-detected) » English

SubHumAns is a perfect example of how the whole movement outgrew itself. After being part of the "backlash", the need for stylistic growth had them bordering on progressive by the time "Worlds Apart" was released. The "backlash" had this spurious equation that musical talent=lack of inspiration that accentuated the early to mid-80's. But like SubHumans, much of the punk scene was "crossing over" to other genres. The crossover of punk to metal is one of the founding events of progmetal.

My favorite part of the myth is that punk is less pretentious than prog. Anyone who has ever watched the ritual application of the punk "uniform" will quickly realize that the bombastic element just moved from the stage to the crowd.

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richardh

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Posted: January 07 2011 at 15:27

WalterDigsTunes wrote:

Punk was a good starting point for young 'uns that would delve into more abstract/synthesized realms in the late 70s and early 80s. Unfortunately, some people never outgrew the shtick. There's nothing quite as goofy as an old punk playing the same three chords and wearing the same old uniform.

up until recently there was a bloke who I would see walking round my home town wearing the whole punk uniform ,the spkiey hair/various pearcings/tight trousers etc. He was also about my age (coming up to 50) and with a pot belly

anyway Punk

When I was 15 I liked some of it.The Stranglers, Siouxsie and the Banshees,Sex Pistols even. Lots of energy and vitality. I was not quite getting Works Volume One, Wish You Were Here and Going For The One at the time so punk did have some hold over me. However I never took it that seriously and the whole boring New Wave scene that followed passed me by. Music just sank into some horrible abyss in the late seventies and early eighties which was about the time I started getting more interested in the seventies output of Genesis ,Yes,Mike Oldfield etc.

Blacksword View Drop Down

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Posted: January 07 2011 at 15:36

Padraic wrote:

what's utter crap is the continuing myth that punk destroyed prog

Indeed. Punk didn't stop Yes, Genesis, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, Marillion and Rush from going on to outsell all of their punk rivals in the 80's, long after punk had left the charts.

Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!

richardh

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Posted: January 07 2011 at 15:49

Blacksword wrote:

Padraic wrote:

what's utter crap is the continuing myth that punk destroyed prog

Indeed. Punk didn't stop Yes, Genesis, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, Marillion and Rush from going on to outsell all of their punk rivals in the 80's, long after punk had left the charts.

It did have some affect though with promising new bands such as Lone Star and Be Bop Deluxe disbanding about that time.Rush had already had their breakthrough with 2112 while Marillion were the only post 80's prog band to sell significant quantities of albums. The others were just massive bands that were able to ride out the storm although even they had to adapt to some extent with both Genesis and Yes adpopting a more straight forward approach ,partly in answer to punk.Pink Floyds 'The Wall' was very much designed to incorporate punk ideas as well. No bands just sailed on serenely as if nothing had happened.

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Posted: January 07 2011 at 15:50

richardh wrote:

Yeah, I always cringe when I see people who look like this:

You're so cool and rebellious, man, you'll look like a f**king idiot in 10 years wooooooooo

Anyway, I'm not a fan, although some punk influenced can be good, and I'll complain about the OP's assertion that punk killed prog too because it's necessary.

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Evolver

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Posted: January 07 2011 at 15:55

Stooge wrote:

I haven't dug too deeply into the world of punk music. I like Black Flag and Dead Kennedys. Pop punk I don't like, and I never understood the fascination with the Ramones.

Exactly! On all points.

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Posted: January 07 2011 at 16:11

There are some excellent bands like The Adicts (the Beatles of punk), The Misfits, Bad Brains (whose members played previously jazz-fusion !), Bérurier Noir, Ludwig von 88, Black Flag, TSOL, Minutemen, Hüsker Dü, Crass, Discharge ("protest and survive" is a great song !), Dropkick Murphys (irish punk), Dead Kennedys, GBH, killer ethyl, motörhead (debut album), Peter and the Test Tube Babies, sigue sigue sputnik (electro punk), atari teenage riot (techno punk), The Clash, The Stranglers, Stiff little fingers, The Adolescents, The meteors...

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tarkus1980 View Drop Down

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Posted: January 07 2011 at 16:13

Punk and post-punk are fine when they're good, and crap when they're not, same as prog.

Also, punk didn't kill prog. Prog killed prog.

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Negoba

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Posted: January 07 2011 at 16:35

It's yet another slight variation of 3 and 4 chord rock musically. Punk was a cultural movement as much or more than a musical one, just as emo is. Every 5 years or so adolescents will want to feel something unique culturally so they will reject and adapt. Prog was so 5 years ago in 1978. MTV was next, then metal, then grunge, yadayada... but for the most part, adolescents, being young, are going to pick relatively simple music that they can play themselves.

There's been plenty of great 3 chord rock tunes through the years. A few of them are punk. But most of them are really just as good as the energy of whoever is performing them at the time.

You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.

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Posted: January 07 2011 at 22:03

I went through the phase like most everyone else who was a teenager in the mid-seventies. Mostly Dead Kennedys, Black Flag, Fear. I have a huge pile of punk cassettes dry-rotting in my attic today, but hardly ever listen to any of it. Gun Club was pretty good too and I play a couple of their albums once and a while.

There was also a later group of punk-inspired bands like the Dead Milkmen, Violent Femmes, Pogues, Camper van Beethoven and Flogging Molly that are still around, and some of them have put out some pretty decent music. Violent Femmes first album is a classic. I saw Camper van Beethoven live a couple years ago and they're pretty old, bitter and wasted but they put on a good show and took the time to autograph a vinyl copy of "Take the Skinheads Bowling" for one of my kids so props to them for that.

My favorite punk band ever was a regional group called the Larrys who toured around the midwest in the early eighties. I saw them a few times; once they finished the concert by asking the audience if they could crash at anyone's house because they were broke and had spent all the money for the show on beer. They had one song about meeting a girl by calling a "for a good time" number on a bathroom wall and falling in love. Pretty funny

I wonder what ever happened to those guys...

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rogerthat

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Posted: January 08 2011 at 02:07

Equality 7-2521 wrote:

I don't think that's necessarily the ethos of punk. Of course journalist have pushed that story for decades now I guess, but it's really just a refocusing on more basic elements of music.

I don't indeed know and wouldn't want to comment on what was each band's ethos but I have heard the sort of thing I described a lot from punkheads, actually most rock fans who don't like prog in fact. I remember reading a review of Two Against Nature slamming Steely Dan's music in general rather than the album in question and suggesting that if not for punk, they would have had nothing to listen to for the intervening twenty years or so. Erm, if the only thing you can listen to is three chords played as loudly as possible, then Dead

Besides, why should a musician be obliged to subscribe to ONLY that ethos?

harmonium.ro View Drop Down

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Posted: January 08 2011 at 07:09

Steely Dan get slammed by proggers too.

rogerthat

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Posted: January 08 2011 at 07:23

harmonium.ro wrote:

Steely Dan get slammed by proggers too.

You mean just generally or for not being prog enough for PA?

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Posted: January 08 2011 at 07:33

I'm more the post- and indie type of person.

Regarding the "punk killed Prog" phenomena, how can you kill something that was already lying dead on the floor?
Punk merely kicked the prog-corpse. Which is not a nice thing to do. But then punk isn't nice so that's expected behaviour. Tongue

However, after the short but great post-punk years, punk and it's offspring (pun intended) became a pop and entertainment business.
On the other hand, Prog got better again in the 90's and after all these years it is doing reasonably well, be it far removed from public sight.

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Posted: January 08 2011 at 08:26

spookytooth wrote:

Also going with other people on here: I absolutely can not stand that stupid myth of punk killing prog, and it's nice to see that most people on this site don't believe that garbage.

English (auto-detected) » English

Agreed, the urban myth of Punk slaying Prog is getting tiresome and the mighty Television are one of the greatest things to have come out of New York (apart from Henry of course)

For me, the so-called post punk bands that I grew up listening to and loving (Cure, XTC, Banshees, Patti Smith, Talking Heads, Monochrome Set, Bunnymen, Joy Division, Magazine et al) only really appropriated economy and minimalism from Punk. Their music is a million miles away from the habitual buzzsaw rhetoric and calculated dumbness of the spit and gob merchants ain't it?

harmonium.ro View Drop Down

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Posted: January 08 2011 at 08:38

rogerthat wrote:

harmonium.ro wrote:

Steely Dan get slammed by proggers too.

You mean just generally or for not being prog enough for PA?

I don't know how the band is regarded in the prog community in general, as PA is the only prog place I've ever been in. But when they were added to PA (and a few times times after that), they got slammed as accessible in a kitschy way and commercial. I checked Aja because the comments intrigued me, and I agreed to a certain extent with the bashing. But I was a prog-snob back then and I don't know if I'd judge the same music in the same way now.