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Walton Street View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2015 at 12:41
2 - and only 2 things in music are dated.
 
the 80's drum machine as previously mentioned,
and the do do doo do do do sound in Bad Company's Rock and Roll Fantasy
 
contrary to popular belief, the cowbell is as contemporary as ever.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2015 at 12:44
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

Also we did not raise that argument, I did!
Yeah, ... and ... ? Any question about it?

Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

Thirdly, Chopin and Bach are dated or not dated, in your humble and worldly mind?
Steve said: "
All music of a certain time period will be dated either through topical social commentary, instruments used, recording techniques and quarks like Jon Anderson's spiritual lyrics." Which I countered with "And under 'all music' do you also include Chopin and Bach?", thus expressing disagreement with Steve. So, no, I don't think it's dated. I think it's fresh as ever.

(Also, I've edited this post with bold. Just a heads up.)
You respond with such belittling sarcasm I now realize that I am in the presence of someone way beyond my humbleness! 
 But, Yawn, you are not very detailed are you, I suggest you being a pseudo psychiatrist and you respond with ” Eh ... a knee-jerk and arrogant comment. “ Spoken like a true professional loonie bin director. Thanks for proving my point, gospodin! Truth is you are a semi-clever slicer and dicer, millions more of you out there.

So you know what, you are ABSOLUTELY right, you are the light! Shine a little on us and guide us to the promised land ! Clap 

I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2015 at 12:49
Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

Also we did not raise that argument, I did!
Yeah, ... and ... ? Any question about it?

Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

Thirdly, Chopin and Bach are dated or not dated, in your humble and worldly mind?
Steve said: "
All music of a certain time period will be dated either through topical social commentary, instruments used, recording techniques and quarks like Jon Anderson's spiritual lyrics." Which I countered with "And under 'all music' do you also include Chopin and Bach?", thus expressing disagreement with Steve. So, no, I don't think it's dated. I think it's fresh as ever.

(Also, I've edited this post with bold. Just a heads up.)
You respond with such belittling sarcasm I now realize that I am in the presence of someone way beyond my humbleness! 
 But, Yawn, you are not very detailed are you, I suggest you being a pseudo psychiatrist and you respond with ” Eh ... a knee-jerk and arrogant comment. “ Spoken like a true professional loonie bin director. Thanks for proving my point, gospodin! Truth is you are a semi-clever slicer and dicer, millions more of you out there.

So you know what, you are ABSOLUTELY right, you are the light! Shine a little on us and guide us to the promised land ! Clap 

 
 
didn't you say you were a Buddhist?
"I know one thing: that I know nothing"

- SpongeBob Socrates
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2015 at 12:51
Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

Also we did not raise that argument, I did!
Yeah, ... and ... ? Any question about it?

Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

Thirdly, Chopin and Bach are dated or not dated, in your humble and worldly mind?
Steve said: "
All music of a certain time period will be dated either through topical social commentary, instruments used, recording techniques and quarks like Jon Anderson's spiritual lyrics." Which I countered with "And under 'all music' do you also include Chopin and Bach?", thus expressing disagreement with Steve. So, no, I don't think it's dated. I think it's fresh as ever.

(Also, I've edited this post with bold. Just a heads up.)
You respond with such belittling sarcasm I now realize that I am in the presence of someone way beyond my humbleness! 
 But, Yawn, you are not very detailed are you, I suggest you being a pseudo psychiatrist and you respond with ” Eh ... a knee-jerk and arrogant comment. “ Spoken like a true professional loonie bin director. Thanks for proving my point, gospodin! Truth is you are a semi-clever slicer and dicer, millions more of you out there.

So you know what, you are ABSOLUTELY right, you are the light! Shine a little on us and guide us to the promised land ! Clap 

What belittling sarcasm are you talking about? And why are you choosing to belittle me instead of sticking with the topic of the discussion?



Edited by Dayvenkirq - January 21 2015 at 12:52
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2015 at 12:52
Jeez, what a grumpy thread! Ouch

I'm not sure why some are arguing about H&H having a "dated" sound, I thought it was just fine in that era and has held up very well.  

One aspect that I didn't care for much was Dave Lambert's guitar phrasing on solos.  He seemed to be more of a "straight ahead rock soloist" than prog guitarist, well-versed in scales, modes etc.  

Not that it is a bad thing, David Gilmour has a similar, blues-based style.  However, I would have liked more Robert Fripp than Robert Johnson. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2015 at 12:52
Yup, and my words prove it, always give the judge his own space to question himself. I accept his criticism, his opinion , his sarcasm and his insult with grace and humility. Even if he is wrong!LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2015 at 12:54
Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

Yup, and my words prove it, always give the judge his own space to question himself. I accept his criticism, his opinion , his sarcasm and his insult with grace and humility. Even if he is wrong!LOL
What sarcasm and what insult? "Knee-jerk" and "arrogant" are merely words of observation. You are being too quick with the conclusions.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - January 21 2015 at 12:54
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2015 at 12:54
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

Also we did not raise that argument, I did!
Yeah, ... and ... ? Any question about it?

Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

Thirdly, Chopin and Bach are dated or not dated, in your humble and worldly mind?
Steve said: "
All music of a certain time period will be dated either through topical social commentary, instruments used, recording techniques and quarks like Jon Anderson's spiritual lyrics." Which I countered with "And under 'all music' do you also include Chopin and Bach?", thus expressing disagreement with Steve. So, no, I don't think it's dated. I think it's fresh as ever.

(Also, I've edited this post with bold. Just a heads up.)
You respond with such belittling sarcasm I now realize that I am in the presence of someone way beyond my humbleness! 
 But, Yawn, you are not very detailed are you, I suggest you being a pseudo psychiatrist and you respond with ” Eh ... a knee-jerk and arrogant comment. “ Spoken like a true professional loonie bin director. Thanks for proving my point, gospodin! Truth is you are a semi-clever slicer and dicer, millions more of you out there.

So you know what, you are ABSOLUTELY right, you are the light! Shine a little on us and guide us to the promised land ! Clap 

What belittling sarcasm are you talking about? And why are you choosing to belittle me instead of sticking with the topic of the discussion?


THIS :"Also, I've edited this post with bold. Just a heads up". My head is always up , btw! 
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2015 at 12:56
A 'sad young man' who does not even bother to remember what he said, tsk, tsk! Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2015 at 12:57
you guys do know that this is national hug day don't you?
"I know one thing: that I know nothing"

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2015 at 13:01
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

Yup, and my words prove it, always give the judge his own space to question himself. I accept his criticism, his opinion , his sarcasm and his insult with grace and humility. Even if he is wrong!
What sarcasm and what insult? "Knee-jerk" and "arrogant" are merely words of observation. You are being too quick with the conclusions.

LOL finally something funny, when I was a teen, my girlfriend complained that I was "too quick with the conclusions"! Okay Andrey, like Kati would say, Hug time, we had fun boiling over!  Hug
No hard feelings Big smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2015 at 13:04
^ Sure. There was a better way to end the previously ongoing discussion, but whatever. ... Ooh.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2015 at 13:07
I guess that this hallowed album has a lot of meaning for me, being my #1 all-time and one likes to defend the ones you love, a natural, very human instinct. Ah, passion, such a rare mellotron (read: instrument) in today's apathetic computer world!  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2015 at 16:07
[QUOTE=Dayvenkirq]
Steve said: "All music of a certain time period will be dated either through topical social commentary, instruments used, recording techniques and quarks like Jon Anderson's spiritual lyrics." Which I countered with "And under 'all music' do you also include Chopin and Bach?", thus expressing disagreement with Steve. So, no, I don't think it's dated. I think it's fresh as ever.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Now that the hoopla is past, I can answer your question regarding if I include Chopin and Bach under the term "all music".  My answer would be yes in regards to Chopin and Bach's view toward older classical music. Franz Shubert was said to dislike the compositions of Antonio Vivaldi on the grounds of age as Vivaldi proceeded Shubert by approximately 100 years.
We  look at classical music, it's forerunners and it's variants with hundreds of years of hindsight and say things like "it's timeless". But that wasn't always the case. Especially when it was originally written.
 
That's what I meant by "all music" is dated to some degree.
 
But to get to the important point. I do not feel that you unjustly criticized the Hero and Heroine album, it has aspects that you don't like and that's perfectly fine with me.
 
That's why they made juke boxes to play more than just one record. Wink
 
(Sorry for the strange format-editing problems.)


Edited by SteveG - January 21 2015 at 16:13
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2015 at 01:23
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Not in the least bit dated.
Really? ... What's with the backwards vocals at the end of the album? What's with that rant Dave breaks out into two thirds into "Round And Round"? ... Who would want any of that, especially live? Come up with something fresh, not a remnant of the 60's.
All music of a certain time period will be dated either through topical social commentary, instruments used, recording techniques and quarks like Jon Anderson's spiritual lyrics.
What time period? And under "all music" do you also include Chopin and Bach?

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

This is how it is for all early prog groups from KC through to Genesis. I could pick apart many more albums than Hero and Heroine in this regard, but what would that have to do with the quality of the music?
Some of the ideas used on the album have been used before (e.g., playing stuff backwards). I've got nothing against that. But how these ideas were used (again, back to backwards verbal singing, etc.) - why would you do that? It's just there. What does it add? There are some unnecessary add-ons, and that has everything to do with quality. As luck would have it, that's not my only problem with the album.
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

And more importantly, what would be my motive to do so? Just to criticize the music?
Criticism for the sake of itself ... that makes no sense at all to me. At all.



how lame can you getConfused of course Chopin and Bach are dated but it is still " classic" music which paradoxically does not date. Wonder if you will understand that statementSmile

So what if this album has a date stamp?? All music does, some more than others. Someone referenced 80's drum fills! Listen to Marillion.....

Anyway, mellotrons or not a classic Strawbs release
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2015 at 01:29
^ Eh ... not with the bashing/namecalling again. 

... Alright, "classic", yes. It does not date, ... certainly, it does not date. That's what I meant by "not dated".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2015 at 08:14
Their best effort. I particularly love the ending of "Silver Sun" or the return of it where the voices are going backwards which closes the album. I like the flow of the album.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2015 at 09:59
^Big smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2015 at 10:02
I loved this album so much that I was horribly disappointed by Nomadness when it came out (somehow I jumped right over Ghosts)
 
I've come to love Nomadness since and I've just recently become acquainted with Ghosts.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2015 at 10:14
^Yes, Nomadness grew on me as later Strawbs albums got weaker. One of thier most progressive albums is the on again/off again reissue of 1978's Heartbreak Hill. The two best songs Starting Over and the great title track can be found on a new compilation titled Prognostic. They may be live versions from the Strawbs' 40th anniversary album vol. 2, which are as good as the studio originals. 
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