| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Matte 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 20 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 103
|
 Topic: Spotify
Posted: August 29 2015 at 06:37 |
|
Right now I have 110.356 songs on my Spotify. All of them are represented here on PA.
|
 |
Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
|
Posted: August 29 2015 at 04:47 |
 Windhawk wrote:
The main evil of Spotify and other streaming services is the deals the major labels forced through for their catalogs to be available on that system. Spotify pays out 70% of the income to the royalty holders, but divided on percentage of total plays rather than what the individual subscriber plays. Which means that the thousands of free subscribers listening to Beyonce and Lady Gaga results on payments from paid subscribers going towards the royalty owners of those artists rather than the music the paid subscribers actually listen to. There is a call from the music community to alter those terms, so that the payments of each subscriber should go towards the music they are actually listening to, as that would make the system a whole lot better.
A second evil is the contracts for the artists signed to labels, where many suffer the fate of digital royalty payouts treated in the same manner as physical royalty payouts, with fixed percentages deducted for pressing, distribution etc. To state this second aspect in a simplistic manner, any artists reading feel free to fill in all the bloody details of this particular evil...
The physical format is going from being the main product to becoming the niche product. That is a revolution that won't be stopped, for better and for worse. This is the case for music, gaming, movies, books, comics, magazines and newspapers. The gaming world have shown that this is a good future is the system is good enough - I can't recall seeing too many articles about the evil of Steam, to put it that way, nor have I seen all that many lamenting the decline of the physical gaming products.
|
Excellent post Olav. 
This is still "early days" and there is still a lot of work to be done in making this fair for all concerned.
The Gaming world has a head-start on this because the manufacturers and distributors have been faced with the issue (of hacking and cracking) for considerably longer. The Gaming software delivery solution is a slightly different model and those differences may make it an incompatible one to music delivery. Variants on that model for other software products (Operating Systems and Applications) where the user does not own the delivered product are easier to manage from a providers' perspective. All this is made possible because the content is update-able and upgradable after purchase, which is not the case with other entertainment media. The major difference in all these is the raw product is created by a business (developer/publisher) rather than an individual (artiste) and distributed though inter-company agreement with the distributor (e.g. Steam). The end-user has bought-in to this model because it benefits them to do so: my iPhone/iPad/Media Player/PC/Gaming Platform is a useless lump of metal, glass and plastic if I don't buy-in to this software delivery system.
This (as I predicted several years ago) is all about ownership. With physical product the ownership model is clear - the creator owns the IP, the manufacturer and distributor owns the saleable items and the end user owns the purchased product. With streamed product (music, gaming, movies, books, comics, magazines and newspapers, plus Apps, software, O/S's etc.) the end user no longer owns anything so they can be removed from the equation. [The 'blame' for that lies squarely with the end-users themselves by way of their misplaced justification for illegal downloading in days of yore]. At present, this leaves all the ownership cards with the manufactures and distributors (for music read "the manufacturers" as "the labels") and puts the creators (artistes) in a position of relative weakness in any subsequent payment negotiations.
|
|
What?
|
|
Windhawk
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 28 2006
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 11400
|
Posted: August 29 2015 at 03:08 |
|
The main evil of Spotify and other streaming services is the deals the major labels forced through for their catalogs to be available on that system. Spotify pays out 70% of the income to the royalty holders, but divided on percentage of total plays rather than what the individual subscriber plays. Which means that the thousands of free subscribers listening to Beyonce and Lady Gaga results on payments from paid subscribers going towards the royalty owners of those artists rather than the music the paid subscribers actually listen to. There is a call from the music community to alter those terms, so that the payments of each subscriber should go towards the music they are actually listening to, as that would make the system a whole lot better.
A second evil is the contracts for the artists signed to labels, where many suffer the fate of digital royalty payouts treated in the same manner as physical royalty payouts, with fixed percentages deducted for pressing, distribution etc. To state this second aspect in a simplistic manner, any artists reading feel free to fill in all the bloody details of this particular evil...
The physical format is going from being the main product to becoming the niche product. That is a revolution that won't be stopped, for better and for worse. This is the case for music, gaming, movies, books, comics, magazines and newspapers. The gaming world have shown that this is a good future is the system is good enough - I can't recall seeing too many articles about the evil of Steam, to put it that way, nor have I seen all that many lamenting the decline of the physical gaming products.
|
|
Websites I work with:
http://www.progressor.net
http://www.houseofprog.com
My profile on Mixcloud:
https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/
|
|
mmmreesescups
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 21 2009
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 100
|
Posted: August 28 2015 at 23:22 |
|
Anyone here use Apple Music? I find it's feckin' good.
|
|
|
|
chopper
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 19965
|
Posted: August 18 2015 at 10:36 |
condor wrote:
Also, I seem to find spotify harder to use than youtube. Anyone else?
|
YouTube is hard to use? Find a video you want to watch, click on the Play button.
|
|
Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970
|
Posted: August 18 2015 at 10:21 |
|
^ Beat me to it.
Edited by Dayvenkirq - August 18 2015 at 10:22
|
|
rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Online
Points: 66057
|
Posted: August 18 2015 at 10:20 |
Dean wrote:
from the interwebs via a 30 second search:
| "Re: Easy way to play a full album
If you search for an artist and then click on their name to go to the artists page, their music will be displayed as albums. You can double click any track to start playback or click on an album name if you only want to see that album. If you have tracks already in a playlist, you can view the album page by clicking the album name in the track row." |
I believe you have to deactivate Spotify's shuffle mode first if you want to maintain track-order |
I think it works that way on a computer, but on a mobile device, unless you pay for Spotify, you can only listen in shuffle mode.
|
|
|
|
Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
|
Posted: August 18 2015 at 10:15 |
from the interwebs via a 30 second search:
| "Re: Easy way to play a full album
If you search for an artist and then click on their name to go to the artists page, their music will be displayed as albums. You can double click any track to start playback or click on an album name if you only want to see that album. If you have tracks already in a playlist, you can view the album page by clicking the album name in the track row." |
I believe you have to deactivate Spotify's shuffle mode first if you want to maintain track-order
|
|
What?
|
|
condor
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 24 2005
Location: Norwich
Status: Offline
Points: 1069
|
Posted: August 18 2015 at 10:03 |
|
I can't manage to select a particular album so I have to browse by the most popular playlist rather than listen to the tracks how the artist intended.
|
|
Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
|
Posted: August 18 2015 at 09:54 |
|
How so?
|
|
What?
|
|
condor
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 24 2005
Location: Norwich
Status: Offline
Points: 1069
|
Posted: August 18 2015 at 09:53 |
|
Also, I seem to find spotify harder to use than youtube. Anyone else?
|
|
Green Shield Stamp
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 17 2009
Location: Telford, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 933
|
Posted: August 16 2015 at 03:47 |
Spotify = 
|
|
Haiku
Writing a poem
With seventeen syllables
Is very diffic....
|
|
SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20525
|
Posted: August 15 2015 at 11:54 |
Spotify = 
|
|
This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
|
|
Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: January 22 2009
Location: Magic Theatre
Status: Offline
Points: 23098
|
Posted: August 15 2015 at 05:33 |
ClemofNazareth wrote:
Gully Foyle wrote:
spotify and it's ilk are evil - support the artists, not the greedy startups |
I can only speak for myself on this topic, but the reality is I buy about the same number of physical recordings today as I did in the 80s and 90s, although today I buy almost exclusively vinyl or special/limited edition CDs because the quality is so much better than it was in the 70s (for vinyl), 80s (cassettes) or 90s (CDs). What's different is that I know that vinyl or CD I buy today will hold up, while 100% of the hundreds of 8-tracks and cassettes I used to own are now lining the bottom of a landfill somewhere, or are strangling saltwater fish in the middle of the Pacific Ocean somewhere. I've had a Spotify subscription for about four years and listened to thousands of songs in that time, with each listen generating a payment to the performer (or whoever they sold their royalty rights to). In the vast majority of cases I would never have bought their physical album anyway, so that's money in their pocket they wouldn't have gotten otherwise. The reality is physical music sales are down something like 70% in the past 15 years and there's no sign that trend will reverse anytime in the future. We're all online and mobile now and I don't see any reason to go back to hauling around a Walkman and fanny pack of CDs, or a suitcase full of cassettes or 8-tracks in the trunk of my car. Artists have a responsibility to respond to the changing world around them just like the rest of us, and the ones that do will remain relevant and be able to make a living if their music is worth listening to. Really musicians have more control today than they ever did; the cost of having your own label, distributing digitally, and making money through public performance is more realistic today than it was in the 80s and 90s when many artists cut back on touring and relied on MTV and VH1 because there was no money to be made on the road. People like me who are loyal to great musicians are going to continue to buy their records because we want to, not because it's the only way to listen to their music. I'm thrilled I no longer have to shell out $12 non-refundable USD for a record based on the one song I heard on the radio or MTV, just to find out the rest of the album sucks. Spotify and the like may not be the answer for the 21st century music industry, in fact it probably isn't considering they've been around for almost eight years and still haven't turned a profit. But it sure beats piracy, something we don't hear about much anymore but was a major issue just 2-3 years ago (which was really just a rehash of the 'illegal taping' debate of the 80s anyway). |
Great post Bob, thanks for that! Spotify has no control over the feckers that won't support the artists by purchasing their albums. I use Spotify, Jootoob and every other streaming service I can each year around the time we are doing the AOTY thing. If I like what I hear I buy it - some times even to the extent that I have to skip a few meals or wipe my arse with a rodent. Studentlife for ya right there! On the other hand - I also very much enjoy flipping through old vinyl stacks and just taking a chance on something I've never heard but looks interesting. That's how I got into a fella called Janko Nilovic.
|
|
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
|
|
symphonicman
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 14 2015
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 114
|
Posted: August 15 2015 at 05:15 |
|
First I find the music on Progarchives, then I listen to it on Spotify and after that I buy the album. That's all.
|
|
Master James of St. George.
Of the fields and the sky.
He used to build castles of stone, steel, and blood.
But lines get broken down.
|
|
Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17535
|
Posted: August 14 2015 at 19:17 |
^ Yup.......
|
|
|
|
ClemofNazareth
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk Researcher
Joined: August 17 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4659
|
Posted: August 14 2015 at 15:28 |
Gully Foyle wrote:
spotify and it's ilk are evil - support the artists, not the greedy startups |
I can only speak for myself on this topic, but the reality is I buy about the same number of physical recordings today as I did in the 80s and 90s, although today I buy almost exclusively vinyl or special/limited edition CDs because the quality is so much better than it was in the 70s (for vinyl), 80s (cassettes) or 90s (CDs). What's different is that I know that vinyl or CD I buy today will hold up, while 100% of the hundreds of 8-tracks and cassettes I used to own are now lining the bottom of a landfill somewhere, or are strangling saltwater fish in the middle of the Pacific Ocean somewhere. I've had a Spotify subscription for about four years and listened to thousands of songs in that time, with each listen generating a payment to the performer (or whoever they sold their royalty rights to). In the vast majority of cases I would never have bought their physical album anyway, so that's money in their pocket they wouldn't have gotten otherwise. The reality is physical music sales are down something like 70% in the past 15 years and there's no sign that trend will reverse anytime in the future. We're all online and mobile now and I don't see any reason to go back to hauling around a Walkman and fanny pack of CDs, or a suitcase full of cassettes or 8-tracks in the trunk of my car. Artists have a responsibility to respond to the changing world around them just like the rest of us, and the ones that do will remain relevant and be able to make a living if their music is worth listening to. Really musicians have more control today than they ever did; the cost of having your own label, distributing digitally, and making money through public performance is more realistic today than it was in the 80s and 90s when many artists cut back on touring and relied on MTV and VH1 because there was no money to be made on the road. People like me who are loyal to great musicians are going to continue to buy their records because we want to, not because it's the only way to listen to their music. I'm thrilled I no longer have to shell out $12 non-refundable USD for a record based on the one song I heard on the radio or MTV, just to find out the rest of the album sucks. Spotify and the like may not be the answer for the 21st century music industry, in fact it probably isn't considering they've been around for almost eight years and still haven't turned a profit. But it sure beats piracy, something we don't hear about much anymore but was a major issue just 2-3 years ago (which was really just a rehash of the 'illegal taping' debate of the 80s anyway).
|
|
"Peace is the only battle worth waging."
Albert Camus
|
|
Pastmaster
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 23 2015
Location: Spiderwood Farm
Status: Offline
Points: 1774
|
Posted: August 14 2015 at 12:52 |
tboyd1802 wrote:
Pastmaster wrote:
twseel wrote:
The amount of physical purchases has definitely decreased, as have the incomes of the artists, but this was already inevitable with the coming of the internet and free file sharing. I also think it's quite unfair to call them leeches; just like artists they invest in bringing good music to the people. They make it possible for more people to hear more good music, and shouldn't that have been the intention of the artist in the first place? |
Thank you, exactly
The main focus of a musician is that they should be enjoying making music and want other people to enjoy it too. |
Let me just say - baloney.
The Spotify royalty model does nothing to support new artists, but does everything to help Spotify line its own pockets and help the major acts cash in. See: http://kernelmag.dailydot.com/issue-sections/staff-editorials/12136/spotify-royalty-payment-model/ for how their royalty model actually works. No, I don't believe Spotify is worse than other services, streaming or otherwise, but is typically of a broken business model that devalues the contributions of the artists themselves.
Lastly, if you really believe artists make music because they love to make music (yes I do believe this), AND they want nothing more than for you to enjoy the fruits of their labors, you are delusional. This is their job, they want you to enjoy it while being able to make a living so they can continue to do it!! |
I don't think it's very nice to call someone delusional for believing that true musicians care about their music first, money last.
Did you see what I said about the record companies? Musicians make the majority of their money from touring and merchandising, unless they're on an independent label. That's the reason why a lot of bands switch to an independent label. I know if I was in a band, my main priority would be making music that I enjoy and seeing others enjoy it.
|
|
aglasshouse
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 27 2014
Location: riding the MOAB
Status: Offline
Points: 1505
|
Posted: August 14 2015 at 12:45 |
|
If bands allow Spotify stream they're music then most bands must be fine with it.
|
|
http://fryingpanmedia.com
|
|
tboyd1802
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 01 2012
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 898
|
Posted: August 14 2015 at 12:33 |
Pastmaster wrote:
twseel wrote:
The amount of physical purchases has definitely decreased, as have the incomes of the artists, but this was already inevitable with the coming of the internet and free file sharing. I also think it's quite unfair to call them leeches; just like artists they invest in bringing good music to the people. They make it possible for more people to hear more good music, and shouldn't that have been the intention of the artist in the first place? |
Thank you, exactly
The main focus of a musician is that they should be enjoying making music and want other people to enjoy it too. |
Let me just say - baloney.
The Spotify royalty model does nothing to support new artists, but does everything to help Spotify line its own pockets and help the major acts cash in. See: http://kernelmag.dailydot.com/issue-sections/staff-editorials/12136/spotify-royalty-payment-model/ for how their royalty model actually works. No, I don't believe Spotify is worse than other services, streaming or otherwise, but is typically of a broken business model that devalues the contributions of the artists themselves.
Lastly, if you really believe artists make music because they love to make music (yes I do believe this), AND they want nothing more than for you to enjoy the fruits of their labors, you are delusional. This is their job, they want you to enjoy it while being able to make a living so they can continue to do it!!
|
|
He neither drank, smoked, nor rode a bicycle. Living frugally, saving his money, he died early, surrounded by greedy relatives. It was a great lesson to me -- John Barrymore
|
|
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Spotify
