Flower Kings Appreciation Thread

i've listened to Unitopia's Garden.  I liked it, but it had some cheese.

^ Oh and no feckin mentioning the Bible, Cain, Abel, Garden of Eden, Moses, Jesus and the fecking holy ghost.....

Edited by M27Barney - August 06 2013 at 06:59

Barney!  Great points.  The reason I think 30 minutes is too long is because it seems to be physically impossible for a group or individual to come up with enough compelling themes and sequences at once.  The best epics are group projects (Yes, Rush, GoD).  Roine plays his themes to death.  I love how he revisits them through out albums, but each of those songs doesn't have to be 7 minutes and the themes don't have to be revisited a bunch of times during the epic.  I think BoE really nails it with a solid epic and then a mini-coda epic at the end with Rising Imperial.  

Edited by zumacraig - August 06 2013 at 10:55

zumacraig wrote: Barney!  Great points.  The reason I think 30 minutes is too long is because it seems to be physically impossible for a group or individual to come up with enough compelling themes and sequences at once.  The best epics are group projects (Yes, Rush, GoD).  Roine plays his themes to death.  I love how he revisits them through out albums, but each of those songs doesn't have to be 7 minutes and the themes don't have to be revisited a bunch of times during the epic.  I think BoE really nails it with a solid epic and then a mini-coda epic at the end with Rising Imperial.   Infancous- Yeah, it seems that conflict really does create some good art (Beatles).

Funny, since Numbers has gradually become my least favorite FK epic, with only Monsters and Men being more dull and boring to my ears.

As to the conflict thing, yeah, it does seem that way.  I've read that Yes albums (the great ones, that is) were always filled with conflict and arguments.  The battles fought within Genesis in the early years are well known also (in fact, the first time Hackett rehearsed with Genesis, Mike Rutherford stormed out of the rehearsal room vowing never to return.......only to come back an hour or so later......I guess this sort of thing happened regularly, with one or another member threatening to quit on a weekly basis).

I still think that the biggest factor was quality control..........producers and LP lengths helped bands to hone their material to just the absolute best stuff.

I do think some people, like Roine, do a very good job on their own (probably because Roine has produced other bands, and worked in studios for many years).........but even then, I think some outside criticism taken to heart would do a lot of good.

The flip side is that it's become apparent that a lot of great and talented musicians and groups didn't get the recognition they should have had in the 70's because of the "quality control" of the record labels.

I'm not really sure that the free for all atmosphere of today is really a good trade off though.  I guess for musicians who just want to make some money off their music it is, but for listeners I think it's much more difficult to find really good stuff.  I also suspect that the quality control of the 60' and 70's let to bands being formed in certain configurations that might not have happened otherwise (the cream rising to the top, in other words).





Edited by infandous - August 06 2013 at 11:03

zumacraig wrote: @Infandous, Yep, quality control is the issue.  Bands did have more creative freedom in the 70, but did have some limits, as you said.  Artists today just need to control themselves!! Now, if you can believe this, my wife might take me on the Prognation Cruise for our anniversary!  That would be so damn fun.  I'd get to see bands I'd probably never ever see in my hometown and also, hopefully, meet them.  There's supposed to be Q/As etc.  All that, plus a cruise.  Probably too good to be true.  One thing that is for certain, Neal will sit in with SB, no doubt.  He's only playing with TA while everyone else is playing in multiple bands.

Yeah, if it wasn't for the fact that's it's leaving from Miami, I might be able to go as well (my girlfriend and I want to go on a cruise around that time anyway).  However, adding airfare onto the $700 per person (or even gas and travel expenses), makes it pretty much out of reach for me.  Wish I could join you!

i'd have to fly to Miami first - tad expensive, even for a once in a lifetime gig.....if it was sailing from Fleetwood it would be possible perhaps....

M27Barney wrote: Hmm, I think that epics (that usually comprise of more than one theme anyway - so are really a set of linked songs with reprise etc to re-link back to previous theme's etc) can be any length from 15 minutes (mini epic) to 320 minutes (the ultimate epic - 4 full CD's, not yet done I think - but maybe attempted by some O.T.T. symphonic prog band who would consider the 5.3 hour MAGNUM OPUS to be the ultimate in prog one-up-man-ship..... Hope some band are now reading this and think YEAH - LETS get on it......Such an epic would need at least 10 monumental and melodic themes that could be played out in a interlinked slinky production that would incorporate scintilating and mega-virtuosity with spine-tingling soaring solos of breathtaking complexity....

Roj wrote: That Unitopia album is one I've been toying with the idea of getting for a while now. Love the cover, description sounds good but quite a few negative reviews left me in 2 minds. someone compared them to Magic Pie (the band not the track;-) ) and for me that's a horrific thought as their Motions of Desire is truly one of the worst albums I've heard - uninspired disjointed garbage, I won't be getting owt else by them that's for sure. I sold it on amazon (well my missus did) for a tenner so I am glad to be shut of it. The glowing recommendation from Dennis could be the one to persuade me to get my credit card out but does anybody else have any views on The Garden?

right then - I'm going to Buy "The garden" - i'll order it from amazon tonight why?

Hey Guys,