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Mascodagama 
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 Posted: September 29 2020 at 00:44 |
 AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
And there lies part of the problem and that is the name. Some people expect it to always be progressing. They don't expect it with classical, jazz or blues only prog rock and that's just because of the name. |
I absolutely expect classical and jazz music to keep developing and evolving, and they are. I’d say any field of musical endeavour where there is no longer any innovation is dead in a pretty meaningful sense.
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Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to. Bandcamp Profile
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Cristi
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Posted: September 29 2020 at 02:08 |
I was trying to be funny. Tough crowd, tough crowd,,,
Edited by Cristi - September 29 2020 at 02:10
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Blacksword
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Posted: September 29 2020 at 02:37 |
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I don't really understand the question.
If by 'coming back' you mean will it have another golden era, then no, of course not, but then it's never really been away either. Artists are still making music and playing live, and probably more so thanks to the internet keeping it on life support.
You'll not see prog topping the album charts again, I'm sure, but the underground scene will continue for as long as it's allowed to I guess. As long as live music isn't banned to 'keep us all safe' then it will live on.
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Posted: September 29 2020 at 03:19 |
Mascodagama wrote:
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
And there lies part of the problem and that is the name. Some people expect it to always be progressing. They don't expect it with classical, jazz or blues only prog rock and that's just because of the name. |
I absolutely expect classical and jazz music to keep developing and evolving, and they are.
I’d say any field of musical endeavour where there is no longer any innovation is dead in a pretty meaningful sense. |
Really? Even standard rock, blues, blues rock and country? I think different genres should do what they can to mix things up and be different and yes even be innovative at times but if they don't it shouldn't be seen as the end of the world. Plus, who's to say what's innovative and what isn't? What sounds like innovation to one person might just sound like a rehash to someone else and vice versa. Also, an artist could think they are being innovative and some people might think they are but really they aren't.
Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - September 29 2020 at 03:23
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chopper
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Posted: September 29 2020 at 04:38 |
Blacksword wrote:
I don't really understand the question.
If by 'coming back' you mean will it have another golden era, then no, of course not, but then it's never really been away either. Artists are still making music and playing live, and probably more so thanks to the internet keeping it on life support.
You'll not see prog topping the album charts again, I'm sure, but the underground scene will continue for as long as it's allowed to I guess. As long as live music isn't banned to 'keep us all safe' then it will live on. |
I agree (unless Mr Wilson manages to get a number one album). It never went away but I do think it's as healthy now as it has been for a while. There's still plenty of good prog being released, the question is how many bands will be able to keep going with no gig income.
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Posted: September 29 2020 at 04:53 |
Catcher10 wrote:
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
Catcher10 wrote:
I just don't think there will be anymore progressive music made that we might compare to the glory days of 70/80s. Newer bands can record music that sounds like it but its not progressive anymore, it will only have prog attributes or tendencies, I don't want to call it copy cat recording.
The music that we hear from all these newer artists to me is just that. Riverside, Haken, The Pineapple Thief and yes Steven Wilson....its not progressive rock music anymore, but merely has prog attributes. The foresight (probably not, but would be cool if true) of M@x and other creators of this website to call it ProgArchives~Ultimate Prog Rock Resource, makes a lot of sense to me.....at least going forward now.
My issue is as others have noted the ease of recording now has made this genre and all its sub-genres almost impossible to listen to much of it without having that young persons ADD....after 15min I'm done and feel like I need to move on to the next. I don't get fully immersed into the music anymore, which is a necessity to understand some of our music. If I look at my entire music collection....LPs, CDs, Digital misc stuff on cassettes and R2R....not sure I have enough time (years) to listen to it all. Do I let my tried and true suffer or do I invest precious time in exploring new music??
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And there lies part of the problem and that is the name. Some people expect it to always be progressing. They don't expect it with classical, jazz or blues only prog rock and that's just because of the name.
As for the amount of music there is such a thing as having too much imo. Some prog collectors have way too many albums and will never be able to listen to it all. Some stuff maybe you don't even want to hear more than a few times but you want in your collection anyway. For me I will put a limit on it at some point. Having 10,000 or more albums is just a bit too crazy so it will be less than that(maybe half of that)but I'm not there yet.
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10,000!!! Are you whacked LOL... Based on some of the music sites I am on that people discuss collections, around 1000-2000 is about what is a lot for many or a higher end avg, and I'm talking LPs. CD I have read people might have 2-3,000 because used CDs are cheap now, nobody wants them they have no resale value. But even still, do the math....say 3000 albums and you listen to 3 albums per day that's 1000 days needed or about 3yrs to listen to it all. Be realistic in how many FULL albums you listen to in a day or say a month......say 12 full albums in a month would take you 21yrs. With family, work, responsibilities closer to that than 3yrs. The most I had was about 1200 LPs, over the past many years I sold, traded albums for other stuff and lost couple hundred in several house moves. I've got around 700 LPs now and that is very manageable, I could sell some still. But yea there are gobs of people who are true collectors of records and CDs that buy to have more.....They will never listen to it all |
No, I'm not whacked. The people who have that many are. Lol.
Actually you can easily listen to 10 or even 20 albums a week. For ten you can do five of those on the weekend(not difficult at all). I'm sure it's not too difficult to listen to ten albums in a weekend either(five on Saturday and Five on Sunday). So ten times 52 is 520. That's 520 albums a year. In five years you can listen to over 2,500 albums. Easy peasy.
Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - September 29 2020 at 06:46
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Nogbad_The_Bad
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Posted: September 29 2020 at 05:03 |
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
Mascodagama wrote:
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
And there lies part of the problem and that is the name. Some people expect it to always be progressing. They don't expect it with classical, jazz or blues only prog rock and that's just because of the name. |
I absolutely expect classical and jazz music to keep developing and evolving, and they are.
I’d say any field of musical endeavour where there is no longer any innovation is dead in a pretty meaningful sense. |
Really? Even standard rock, blues, blues rock and country? I think different genres should do what they can to mix things up and be different and yes even be innovative at times but if they don't it shouldn't be seen as the end of the world. Plus, who's to say what's innovative and what isn't? What sounds like innovation to one person might just sound like a rehash to someone else and vice versa. Also, an artist could think they are being innovative and some people might think they are but really they aren't.
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Rock & Country continue to evolve though in Country's case not in a good way. Jazz certainly evolves there's loads of interesting stuff going on there.
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Ian
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chopper
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Posted: September 29 2020 at 07:55 |
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
In five years you can listen to over 2,500 albums. Easy peasy.
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So that's 20 years to listen to 10,000 albums once? Blimey, I still haven't got through my Flower Kings box set yet.
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rushfan4
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Posted: September 29 2020 at 08:08 |
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I started with A's in February 2015, and I am now in L's. It would go quicker if that is all that I listened to, but I go on tangents, listen to new releases, etc...
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MortSahlFan
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Posted: September 29 2020 at 08:15 |
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I think it died 40 years ago.
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moshkito
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Posted: September 29 2020 at 08:38 |
Catcher10 wrote:
...Based on some of the music sites I am on that people discuss collections, around 1000-2000 is about what is a lot for many or a higher end avg, and I'm talking LPs. CD I have read people might have 2-3,000 because used CDs are cheap now, nobody wants them they have no resale value. But even still, do the math....say 3000 albums and you listen to 3 albums per day that's 1000 days needed or about 3yrs to listen to it all. ... |
Hi,
I got as far as 2300, and when CD's made it around, I started switching and am now to about 700-800 LP's ... the biggest issue being how heavy they are when you have to move, and so on ...
I "started" the collection in/around 1970, and by the time Space Pirate Radio came about (Jan 1974) I already had probably 400/500 albums and it continued until the 1990's when I had to stop buying LP's but still got the important ones like KS, TD and so on.
I have HEARD and KNOW every single album I have or CD ... anyone can come over and pull out one and play something and I will tell you what that is. My contention is that the QUALITY with which you listen to these things is the reason why you remember or forget them ... I sincerely doubt that you can give any band a fair listen when you have it on the earphones and it is playing while you are driving ... and that is the greatest complaint about abilities to listen to things these days ... you know right away by the comments that it has not been heard ... easy to see why ... why would anyone make stupid comments when they "HEARD" it and then not have a reasonable comment about it?
This is the toughest part of PA ... not to mention the pessimists and people that don't believe in "prog" or "progressive" ... and continually post stuff that makes it look like it's a corpse in a casket!
Music, or the arts, NEVER DIES ... it's our ability to listen and process it that does ... because there is no "dedication", to listening ... heck, I lost a girlfriend because of that ... and in the end all I could say was ... good riddance! ... because life without the arts is not worth living!
Catcher10 wrote:
........ say 12 full albums in a month would take you 21yrs. With family, work, responsibilities closer to that than 3yrs. ... |
Quality is inversely proportional to quantity ... the main issue I have with it all the how it is heard and paid attention to ... and in the past 30 years or so, commercial music has taken the "attention" out of the music in favor of snippets and songs that you pay 99 cents for, thus making it look like that albums and longer materials are crap and not worthy of attention and listening.
Try 50 years ... and no ... I don't "collect" ... I only have the music that I love!
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Psychedelic Paul
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Posted: September 29 2020 at 08:42 |
I listen to eight albums a day on average, which is just enough to go through my entire CD collection in one year. 
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BrufordFreak
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Posted: September 29 2020 at 09:05 |
Grumpyprogfan wrote:
BrufordFreak wrote:
As Steve mentioned above, DYI home recordings allows for the production and appearance of more one-man bands, but I am of the opinion that one-man projects often lack the depth and fullness that a multiplicity of perspectives seem to benefit from. |
What? Don't tell that to The Psychedelic Ensemble, Todd Rundgren, Adrian Belew, Mike Oldfield, Phil Collins, Mattias Eklundh, and many more great one-man band records.
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The key word in my assertion above is "often." There are, and always will be, exceptions to any generalization.
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BrufordFreak
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Posted: September 29 2020 at 09:18 |
FatherChristmas wrote:
BrufordFreak wrote:
After a decade of and abundance, I feel that this year has seen a slowdown in both new bands and in new album releases from older, more established bands. I mean, bands need and want to play live, to tour, and the can't. (In the modern era of music, the money is in the concert receipts and merchandising there, I'm told). As Steve mentioned above, DYI home recordings allows for the production and appearance of more one-man bands, but I am of the opinion that one-man projects often lack the depth and fullness that a multiplicity of perspectives seem to benefit from. So, I'd say, as of right now, the interest and ability to "make it" as a prog rock band is maligned and thus diminishing. The "Renaissance" of the Teens is, I believe, over. |
Many people agree with you that the '"Renaissance" of the Teens' is over, mainly reviewers, who I could make many unnecessary rude jokes about. I won't, knowing my track record. I certainly agree that bands are usually better than one-man projects. I, however, like the new stuff by the new bands (I think it's better than all the 90s and 00s stuff, and nearly up to the 70s standards), and I hope I'm not alone. What with young people's attention spans, and modern prog barely scraping the charts, prog could die (or be dying right now). Mind you, I also thought that in the 2000s. I could well be fretting pointlessly again. However, if you're right and 2020 has been a slow down, then we must hope. |
After reviewing one of my favorite sources for New Prog Releases, I can verify that 2020 has, indeed, been a down year for new prog releases--with hundreds of releases fewer that each of the years 2019, 2018, and 2017. However, I reserve my final judgment until the end of the year because, both traditionally and statistically, October, November, and December are the year's biggest months for new prog releases.
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FatherChristmas
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Posted: September 29 2020 at 09:58 |
BrufordFreak wrote:
FatherChristmas wrote:
BrufordFreak wrote:
After a decade of and abundance, I feel that this year has seen a slowdown in both new bands and in new album releases from older, more established bands. I mean, bands need and want to play live, to tour, and the can't. (In the modern era of music, the money is in the concert receipts and merchandising there, I'm told). As Steve mentioned above, DYI home recordings allows for the production and appearance of more one-man bands, but I am of the opinion that one-man projects often lack the depth and fullness that a multiplicity of perspectives seem to benefit from. So, I'd say, as of right now, the interest and ability to "make it" as a prog rock band is maligned and thus diminishing. The "Renaissance" of the Teens is, I believe, over. |
Many people agree with you that the '"Renaissance" of the Teens' is over, mainly reviewers, who I could make many unnecessary rude jokes about. I won't, knowing my track record. I certainly agree that bands are usually better than one-man projects. I, however, like the new stuff by the new bands (I think it's better than all the 90s and 00s stuff, and nearly up to the 70s standards), and I hope I'm not alone. What with young people's attention spans, and modern prog barely scraping the charts, prog could die (or be dying right now). Mind you, I also thought that in the 2000s. I could well be fretting pointlessly again. However, if you're right and 2020 has been a slow down, then we must hope. |
After reviewing one of my favorite sources for New Prog Releases, I can verify that 2020 has, indeed, been a down year for new prog releases--with hundreds of releases fewer that each of the years 2019, 2018, and 2017. However, I reserve my final judgment until the end of the year because, both traditionally and statistically, October, November, and December are the year's biggest months for new prog releases.
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Ok, I'll stop pretending it's been a great year! Some of my favourite albums come from this year, that's all (Love over Fear, Seven Seas, Virus).
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"Music is the wine that fills the cup of silence" - Robert Fripp
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BrufordFreak
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Posted: September 29 2020 at 10:00 |
Catcher10 wrote:
I just don't think there will be anymore progressive music made that we might compare to the glory days of 70/80s. Newer bands can record music that sounds like it but its not progressive anymore, it will only have prog attributes or tendencies, I don't want to call it copy cat recording.
First of all, I find it surprising that you include the 1980s in your "glory days"--especially when referring to progressive rock music. Secondly, it feels as if you are discounting all human ingenuity that went into the modification and adaptation of computer technologies for the benefit of music. Do you think analog electronic sound modification systems superior and/or "more natural" than drum machines, Fairlight CMI, MIDI, sampling, looping, and auto-tune? Thirdly, do the subgenres that appeared/were defined after the "glory days" not constitute progression in music? Have not Sigur Rós, Meshuggah, Mark Hollis, David Sylvian, Höyry-Kone, Yugen, Steve Hauschildt, Toby Driver, Godspeed You! Black Emperor, and Jambinai brought something new to the table?
The music that we hear from all these newer artists to me is just that. Riverside, Haken, The Pineapple Thief and yes Steven Wilson....its not progressive rock music anymore, but merely has prog attributes. The foresight (probably not, but would be cool if true) of M@x and other creators of this website to call it ProgArchives~Ultimate Prog Rock Resource, makes a lot of sense to me.....at least going forward now.
As another poster said above, what then, constitutes "classical music" or jazz? They're just names invented for our convenience, but the do help cleanly clarify the separation of styles within our own minds. Progressive Rock just happens to be nearly synonymous with your preferred term for all "prog attribute" music of the past 40 years, "prog rock." As has been discussed to death here on PA, the experimental synthesis of multiple forms of music (Jazz, Blues/Rock n Roll, Folk, and Classical) burst onto the scene with an explosion in 1965 or 1966 and then kind of got boring or commonplace within ten years. Yet, then effects--and artists inspired by said explosion--are being felt to this day--as can be said of every other major music form. Jazz, Folk, and Classical musics are still being created to this day--creative, artistic people are still being inspired to explore these mediums of musical expression, just as they are (thankfully) in the Prog World. Whether or not one wishes to remain open to new expressions of old styles or stay to true to the original artists and "classic" works of each or any genre is a purely subjective decision. I've found that there is TONS of old music that I missed--and have been EVER SO GRATEFUL to ProgArchives for the chance of running across these artists and albums, but, at the same time, I am so excited to see and hear the personal takes and creative variations that new, younger artists CHOOSE to explore and express. The Big Bang happened, but it hasn't stopped the Universe from growing and life from evolving--it has only unleashed all possibilities!
My issue is as others have noted the ease of recording now has made this genre and all its sub-genres almost impossible to listen to much of it without having that young persons ADD....after 15min I'm done and feel like I need to move on to the next. I don't get fully immersed into the music anymore, which is a necessity to understand some of our music. If I look at my entire music collection....LPs, CDs, Digital misc stuff on cassettes and R2R....not sure I have enough time (years) to listen to it all. Do I let my tried and true suffer or do I invest precious time in exploring new music??
Of course you should do what you want to do! Re-live and explore the music you love till your heart is content! It'd be nice, however, if you could appreciate the joy and creative expression that others have been inspired to pursue because of the music and artists of your beloved "glory days."
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Edited by BrufordFreak - September 29 2020 at 10:03
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progaardvark
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Posted: September 29 2020 at 10:30 |
In late summer I start listening to new albums. I started with A and I'm up to M (but have to go back and listen to some more that came out in recent weeks). I've listened to 76 albums so far. Prog is not dying out.
And see the new artists added in this year alone (most of which have had recent releases in the last couple of years):
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Posted: September 29 2020 at 10:38 |
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Is it safe to say that prog has stabilized over the last 15-20 years?
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FatherChristmas
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Posted: September 29 2020 at 10:42 |
SteveG wrote:
Is it safe to say that prog has stabilized over the last 15-20 years? |
What exactly do you mean by that? 
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"Music is the wine that fills the cup of silence" - Robert Fripp
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Nogbad_The_Bad
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Posted: September 29 2020 at 10:47 |
SteveG wrote:
Is it safe to say that prog has stabilized over the last 15-20 years? |
I'd agree with that, not trending up or down.
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Ian
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