Anyone a fan of rap

wolf0621 wrote: Has Ivan run out of gas?

I've stopped responding to him, since he he reads way too many things into what I write.

wolf0621 wrote: What time is it in Peru (or in Sweden for that matter)?

It's currently 7:20 PM here in Sweden, I would guess Peru is about 7-8 hours earlier, around mid-day.

wolf0621 wrote: You know, I could possibly be turned around on this whole topic with some further convincing arguments (but I do draw the line at yodeling, I don't care how many hours per day of practice are involved)!

If you want to ease your way into getting comfortable with some of the sounds and tropes of the genre, you could do worse than the already recommended Endtroducing... by DJ Shadow. It doesn't contain any rapping, as I recall - or if it does, there's not much of it - and it's often been described as Prog/Hip Hop album. So, that will give you a familiarty with the general nature of the genre, without being overtly unfamiliar.

If that works for you, then try anything by Jean Grae, who by dint of being a smart woman is obviously a bit removed from that male bragging Gangsta Rap that probably is the main exposure most people get to Rap, so you don't have those overtones. Her rhythmic sophistication is pretty much self-evident to anyone who listens closely.

Now, if all that works out...well, then check the two lists posted earlier in the thread.

Well, Wolf. I don't see why it is that you feel the need to continuously spell it Wrap? It's only marginally less annoying than the ever-popular (c)Rap and doesn't really do anything except note that you don't like it. Imagine someone trying to discuss their lack of appreciation for Progressive Rock and calling it "Frog Rock" throughout. It doesn't really add anything to the discussion.

Now, I'm not saying that there aren't certain genres  I am disrespectful of - or at least some of the signature acts of those genres (and it's inevitably about me seeing them as pandering to a lowest common denominator, an accusation that certainly fits the bill for most mainstream Rap) - but I still don't see the point of warping their names, unless maybe it's done once for effect when trying to make a particular point.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Teaflax wrote: Well, let me just add this; I think anyone who knows a bit about music should be able to respect a lot more music than they actually would want to listen to.   Wise words , hope you apply them also when you talk about such bands like Kansas and even non Prog as Meatloaf and I'm 100% sure there will be no problems.   Iván

Anyone who knows a bit about music also knows about what they DON'T like, and it's fine to not like a band if you have heard them and know why you can't connect with them.  His point is that maybe you could show respect for some hip-hop artists without actually being obligated to listen to them regularly, instead of dismissing them out of hand.

I dont want to be choosing sides in this little catfight, but that's how I feel about that subject...

Well, let me just add this; I think anyone who knows a bit about music should be able to respect a lot more music than they actually would want to listen to.

There's a lot of music I can tell certainly has merit, but that grates on my ears or is just not interesting. To keep this vaguely on-topic, I offer up the production work of Timbaland, which I find to be incredibly daring sometimes and usually quite groundbreaking, but I wouldn't actively listen to anything he's produced.

And for all my defending of Rap as a valid genre, it's not something I listen to particularly often. I used to feel pretty much like Iván does back in the 80's, and even thought I would get in on the act, and make me some sweet cash. Seeing as I was a singer, spoke unaccented English, wrote song lyrics regularly, and had access to several recording studios, spitting out a Rap tune or two shouldn't be that difficult. Well, as it turned out, it was a damned sight more difficult than I had thought - and this was even before increase in rhythmic and structural sophistication of underground Rap which happened during the 90's.

I've played the bass in a Blues/Rock combo, sung in Prog and Pop groups, drummed in a Punk band and to this day create music on my keyboard here at home, so I have some sense of what goes into making music, even though I know very little about musical theory. In my experience, rapping well - and do note that I find that most rapping you hear on MTV does not qualify - very difficult indeed.

And to freestyle it - that's just breathtaking to see someone do well. I have an acquaintance who is a rapper in the band Hearin' Aid. He's a good enough rapper, but when you realise that a lot of what he does is almost completely improvised, it's almost unfathomable. When you see him do one take, flub a line and then start over, except now with a completely different lyric...that's impressive.

Again, it's nothing I would listen to, but you have to respect the craft.


Edited by Teaflax - June 06 2006 at 19:46

"To Mr Teaflax I would say that once you start your "argument" by dismissing an artist, a band or genre with a casual "it sucks" then you set the tone for the level of discussion."

 

I believe that I also earlier stated that I thought wrap & hip hop sucked, at least the stuff that I've heard...Conceding that I couldn't possibly have heard everything (no one has...I hope) & that there may be some wonderful acts out there, I'm comfortable with my judgement of that particular material...Wasn't trying to set any particular tone, just stating my honest opinion, others can disagree & I'll still sleep well tonight......If given the choice to scour the wrap/hip hop world for listenable tunes vs, say, rock or prog, I believe my choice would be clear as to where I'd concentrate my efforts!

Tony R wrote: Ivan,I would say that you must have a very old dictionary,but no doubt you've cited a 2006 version from the UK.   Tony, I'm using the 2006 Merriam Webster online dictionary I'm not sure that I concede your point about something having two meanings,because I can assure you that bleeder, whilst slightly patronising in this usage, would not be considered offensive to a native English speaker,nor is it reasonable to expect people to double-check every word for innuendo.   Honestly I do it, if something has two meanings I usually avoid it and you know me enough to known that I do. A classic example from the UK is the use of the word "bugger". I guarantee if I called you a "loveable old bugger" you'd be extremely offended yet the word has become little more than an affectionate and jocular term of address.This interpretation of the word is 100% consistent acroos the whole country.   But not everybody here is Britsh Tony, not even Teaflax, according to his profile he's from Sweden.   BTW Loveable old bugger by the context is being used doesn't sound offensive.   Iván

Tony R wrote: Wow,I've just read the WHOLE of this thread,every last word (rumblings from another place) and I am at a loss to see why someone would want this thread closed.There have been arguments but it has never boiled over into that scarcely definable territory named "across the line" . I think that an argument about taste is pointless. To Mr Teaflax I would say that once you start your "argument" by dismissing an artist, a band or genre with a casual "it sucks" then you set the tone for the level of discussion. To Ivan I would say "as above"   Agree with all the above. Oh and "bleeder" is NOT offensive where I live,it is, as Snow Dog states,a term of endearment.   When a term has two meanings as in this case you must be carefull using them there are terms that are completely normal in Perú but if I used them with a person from Argentina or Chile will be pretty offensive.   If I ak for a "Cajetilla de cigarros" /Pacckage of cigarrettes in Perú) there's no problem, but if I use the same term in Argentina, probably I would be thrown out of the store for calling the owner a whore or the owner a pimp, not sure.   If somebody asks me for the time in Perú and I don't have a watch I would answer "Son las cinco y pico" (It's 5 and a bit more) if I said that to a lady in Chile (And I did it once) I will be probably insulted for using a vulgar reference to a prenis.   If I don't know the British terminology, I check the dictionary, and if the dictionary mentions two offensive meanings (Both offensive), the person that's using them must avoid them, specially after a discussion.   Iván

Bleeder: 2 British : ROTTER; also : BLOKE

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Teaflax wrote: The bleeder's older'n me. *shock, horror*   How do you feel being offensive? Is that a pleassure for you? Does you feel better or even more smart than you claim you are?   That's the reason why normally nice people ofth9is forum is being rude with you, because you ask for it.   And BTW: The phrase "Your Friend in Prog" was only a vulgar manipulation of your part (As I already knew).  But I won't fall in your game.   Iván

I can't believe I'm doing this but.......


......Ivan, "bleeder" is virtually a term of endearment in UK English, the English that Teafalx has been using.

Teaflax wrote: The bleeder's older'n me. *shock, horror*

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - June 06 2006 at 16:43