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bhikkhu 
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 06 2006
Location: A² Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 5109
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 Posted: April 04 2007 at 01:51 |
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Prog-jester
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 05 2005
Location: Love Beach
Status: Offline
Points: 5779
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Posted: April 04 2007 at 09:42 |
Have you checked the full tracks, Ivan? I'm still in doubts  They are complex and crafty at times, but sometimes they're even more cheesy than PENDRAGON! Please, check the full tracks guys in order to get the whole picture and count the balance of Neo and Sympho here. Honestly...I don't know what to say. I don't want them in Neo (since they're NOT Marillion/IQ/you-continue/-alike band), but I don't feel myself to be listening to their album as SYMPHO prog either A poll?..
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bhikkhu
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 06 2006
Location: A² Michigan
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Points: 5109
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Posted: April 04 2007 at 13:00 |
 Prog-jester wrote:
Have you checked the full tracks, Ivan?
I'm still in doubts They are complex and crafty at times, but sometimes they're even more cheesy than PENDRAGON!
Please, check the full tracks guys in order to get the whole picture and count the balance of Neo and Sympho here.
Honestly...I don't know what to say. I don't want them in Neo (since they're NOT Marillion/IQ/you-continue/-alike band), but I don't feel myself to be listening to their album as SYMPHO prog either
A poll?..
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Ivan and I went over all of the samples last night, and we both reached the same conclusion. It doesn't have to sound exactly like those bands to be Neo. I think that would be the best home for Apple Pie.
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ClemofNazareth
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk Researcher
Joined: August 17 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4659
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Posted: April 04 2007 at 19:27 |
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Other than the first and part of the second sample, I do not hear anything to associate these guys with Symphonic Rock. I agree with those who recommend Neo, if anywhere, although would also be supportive of not including them at all. There is some apparent SB cloning going on, but for the most part I would lump them with Triumph, Stryper, stuff like that.
(IMHO)
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"Peace is the only battle worth waging."
Albert Camus
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: April 04 2007 at 21:12 |
Well, now I don't require to ask James who is very busy this days, three votes are enough.
We can't accept Apple Pie in Symphonic.
Iván
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: April 04 2007 at 23:48 |
So is there any sort of consensus yet?
I'm indifferent, though I'd rather they be wherever Spock's Beard is
(This is where a Modern Symphonic genre would come in REALLY handy).
In favor of Neo-Prog classification: HT
Ivan
Clem
mystic fred
In favor of Symphonic prog classification: Cyg
greenie
Igor (???)
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greenback
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 14 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3300
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Posted: April 05 2007 at 00:01 |
stonebeard wrote:
So is there any sort of consensus yet?
I'm indifferent, though I'd rather they be wherever Spock's Beard is (This is where a Modern Symphonic genre would come in REALLY handy).
In favor of Neo-Prog classification:
HT
Ivan
Clem
mystic fred
In favor of Symphonic prog classification:
Cyg
greenie
Igor (???)
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i do not necessarily classify them as sympho, but like Ivan does not consider them sympho, i don't consider them neo.
the whole neo team do not consider them neo!  we have a special ear for those difficult cases.
that's a "heads or tails" case!
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[HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!>
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: April 05 2007 at 00:03 |
This means only one thing, then: Canterbury. 
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bhikkhu
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 06 2006
Location: A² Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 5109
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Posted: April 05 2007 at 00:27 |
stonebeard wrote:
So is there any sort of consensus yet?
I'm indifferent, though I'd rather they be wherever Spock's Beard is
(This is where a Modern Symphonic genre would come in REALLY handy).
In favor of Neo-Prog classification:HTIvanClemmystic fred In favor of Symphonic prog classification:CyggreenieIgor (???)
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Yes they do have the Spock's Beard sound, but the compositions themselves do not have the same symphonic structure.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Posted: April 05 2007 at 01:21 |
I believe that in this case the only alternative is Prog related.
This is not a contest, Neo Prog has autonomy that we have to respect, plus this guys have a lot of mainstream elemnts.
They deserve to be here, I believe they are Prog, but it's easier to move them once in the Archives if they release an album that 100% defines them that having them nowhere.
Iván
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Prog-jester
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 05 2005
Location: Love Beach
Status: Offline
Points: 5779
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Posted: April 05 2007 at 07:07 |
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I disagree about mainstreamy elements. Full tracks (see the end of Neo Thread in Collabs Zone) have nothing common with mainstream, but if you listened to samples ONLY, you can have an impression of somewhat mainstreamy (partly).
OK, I give up. Neo Prog. I like the genre and have nothing against it, but APPLE PIE are so SBish...
OK-OK, I quit my "if X is in X-section, why don't we put X-influenced Y in X-section too" talks.
NEO PROGRESSIVE ROCK
Please add them there.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19535
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Posted: April 05 2007 at 10:38 |
Prog-jester wrote:
I disagree about mainstreamy elements. Full tracks (see the end of Neo Thread in Collabs Zone) have nothing common with mainstream, but if you listened to samples ONLY, you can have an impression of somewhat mainstreamy (partly).
OK, I give up. Neo Prog. I like the genre and have nothing against it, but APPLE PIE are so SBish...
OK-OK, I quit my "if X is in X-section, why don't we put X-influenced Y in X-section too" talks.
NEO PROGRESSIVE ROCK
Please add them there. |
Please Igor, don't be unfair, since I received your post I tried to pace them in a genre (as I did with Er. J. Orchestra, adding them with a fast decision from an Adm) and I tried very hard, but Greenback spoke sytrongly about Neo Prog (As all his team) and if I want my team's decisions to be respevcted I must respect their's.
In Symphonic happens something similar, the majority of my team has voted clearly, I can't go gainst my team members decisions and mine also.
From the start you wrote they were not Symphonic, so there was little room for us.
Yes I heard only samples because that's what is availlable, but songs as Temptation and Still Got my Faith in You, have clear mainstream elements, the first one being 100% funky.
I would like to listen all the bands but my pocket is not elastic, I'm also listening Gourishankar and Gavin O'Loghlen and can't buy their albums neither,so I asked Gavin to send me complete samples, hope he answers.
If no team accepts them I honestly recommend to include them in PR, once they release another album, maybe their sub-genre is more clear ffor all of us and may be pulled ny some team, it's easier than inducting them again and waiting for the teams to decide.
Now it's out of my hands
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 05 2007 at 10:44
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Man Overboard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 07 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Status: Offline
Points: 3830
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Posted: April 05 2007 at 22:39 |
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I saw this thread, and was inspired, so I've checked out the full album.
These guys are like Neal-era Beard, but proggier overall, much more complex. I think we should have the deciding collabs hear the entire album before making a decision.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19535
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Posted: April 05 2007 at 23:41 |
Sadly the English version of their page doesn't work and I'km unable to read Russian, there's no place to find full versions that are legal.
Found the reviews in Proggnoisis (Who heard the whole album) and totally different from what we got, they say it's a blend between Spock's Beard and Dream Theater, they also agree with us about the mainstream elements specially in Temptation.
Mindanaw insists in the Portnoy Ruddess connection and they go further:
| This album exactly as a Crossroad between SB and the more symphonic and less heavy moments of Dream Theater. In fact there are many lines in this album that draw back to the quieter moments of Scenes from a memory, the progressive masterpiece of DT. |
All the information is contraditory, Progressor from Uzbequistan who normally support the Russian bands say nothing of the band, they send to the page of MAKL recods that doesn't help at all.
I would love to buy all the albujms that we receive from didfferent bands, but sadly I'm not rich, neither I can force the tteam members to buy each and every album.
This is the most I can do in Symphonic, I tried, Prog Jester knows I always check the bands sent by him, but I can't go against what´ my team and me listen from what we have availlable.
Iván
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Man Overboard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 07 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Status: Offline
Points: 3830
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Posted: April 06 2007 at 00:49 |
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Why not ask the band for a promo copy? I'm sure they'd be more than willing to supply one, in exchange for being accurately represented on ProgArchives.
Dammit, we of all people know how important it is for people to view music as a whole, rather than a small piece. If one were to hear two-minute clips of many Gabriel-era Genesis songs, one could easily make a case for them being a simple soft rock band!
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19535
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Posted: April 06 2007 at 02:14 |
Man Overboard wrote:
Why not ask the band for a promo copy? I'm sure they'd be more than willing to supply one, in exchange for being accurately represented on ProgArchives.
Dammit, we of all people know how important it is for people to view music as a whole, rather than a small piece. If one were to hear two-minute clips of many Gabriel-era Genesis songs, one could easily make a case for them being a simple soft rock band!
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To be hionest, most of he bands who are willing to send promo copies, offer themselves, in this case Apple Pie has no communication with us, it's Igor who asked for them, a PA member who has already proposer bands that were admitted.
We will ask a copy, even when I',m not used to ask something for free, I'm afraid that people will thnk we are in PA just because the benefit of receiving free material and that's not accurate at all.
I have already PMd two other bands (One of them is Gavin O'Loghlen) but haven't received answer from them, I believe Igor could make the contact, our team has already given the opinion about Symphonic, but if we had all the material (Which I honestly would change radically the idea received of the samples unless they used the less Symphonic fragments) we will check it again.
Iván
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Man Overboard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 07 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Status: Offline
Points: 3830
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Posted: April 06 2007 at 02:43 |
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I'm listening to the album again, and I really can't see them being neo... the majority of their output has more in common with Modern Symphonic and Classic Symphonic, they sound nothing at all like IQ, Marillion, Pendragon, Pallas, and the other Neo staples.
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Vartan
Forum Newbie
Joined: April 07 2007
Location: Russian Federation
Status: Offline
Points: 6
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Posted: April 07 2007 at 18:02 |
Hey guys! The English version of our page is working already. Wellcome! Now you've got a contact.
Edited by Vartan - April 07 2007 at 18:05
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Apple Pie
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19535
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Posted: April 07 2007 at 20:15 |
That's great Vartan, it's hard to understand a language that uses a different alphabet.
After listening the links sent by a member, it still sounds as Neo to me, but it's not my call.
The only track I don't like is Temptation, the others are pretty good.
Iván
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Vartan
Forum Newbie
Joined: April 07 2007
Location: Russian Federation
Status: Offline
Points: 6
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Posted: April 08 2007 at 17:46 |
I don't know why, but russian listeners likes Temtation more than other tracks. Strange, isn't it? Whatever, thank you Iván and thanks to other guys for this incredible debates!
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Apple Pie
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