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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 20563 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 16:15
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

 
You can talk of genres, you can talk about blends,  you can talk about a song having influence of different genres....But translate it to numbers?
 
Sorry but I believe it takes the beauty out of music.
 
Iván


Only if you allow it to do so. You rated albums before on this website ... did that also take the beauty out of the music? I really doubt that ...

BTW: Above you said that for you a band is either not prog, prog-related or prog. Ok, so you're already rating progressiveness on a scale from 0 to 2.
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 16:21
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:



Only if you allow it to do so. You rated albums before on this website ... did that also take the beauty out of the music? I really doubt that ...
 
Describing how an album makes you feel, what is your opinion of the music has nothing to do with percentages and scales, the rating is only telling people how much you recommend an album, that's why I always said that ratings without reviews should not be allowed.


BTW: Above you said that for you a band is either not prog, prog-related or prog. Ok, so you're already rating progressiveness on a scale from 0 to 2.
 
No Mike, it's only a yes or no, nothing more.
 
Ask anybody do you love your mother is not the same as asking him in a 10 points chart, how much do you love your Mom?
 
Iván



Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 10 2008 at 16:28
            
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Points: 65972 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 16:42
My parents were at my house this weekend so I love my mom at about 5.  They headed home to Florida today though, so it should be back up to a 10.  My parents tend to get on my nerves when we are under the same roof.  We get along much better 1200 miles apart.Wink
 
Being an accountant who works with numbers, and who also prepares tax returns for about 50 attorneys, I know from experience that attorneys and numbers don't normally get along together all that well.  So I can see how Iván would not care too much for using numbers to describe music.  LOL  But I do agree with Mike on this one.  Whether you are conciously doing it or not, I think that we all internally categorize the music by percentages or ratios.  Probably not down to .78% but more in the line of 0%, 25%, 50%, 75% and 100%, which would probably translate into not progressive, partially progressive, somewhat progressive, mostly progressive, and fully progressive. 
 
And if you are someone who enjoys numbers or numerology then adding numbers or percentages to the music only makes it that much more beautiful to you.  But that is only one point of view.
 


Edited by rushfan4 - September 10 2008 at 16:42
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Points: 46301 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 16:45
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ sorry, but both The Who and criticism of numbers and statistics is off topic ... maybe you could continue those discussions in other threads?Embarrassed


I'm not against your statistics, just to mention, Mike...Embarrassed

In fact, instead of this graphic, I can easily translate it all in which albums are progressive and which aren't (or I can easily misunderstand the thing, on the other hand LOL)...but that would pretty much be an argument in favour of Metallica having the stuff to enter prog...

NOT really! cause based on the infos on have on Metallica (for my super cool metal fan), Metallica and prog does not compute...or, better said, it best not compute...

here's where nuancing and not statistics works for me...if Metallica has manifested enough progressiveness compared to Metallica, I'd still think over if Metallica has manifested enough progressiveness compared to prog (not prog rock  necessarily, because I basically agree with the main lesson: prog rock ain't prog metal, viceversa likewise)

but you're right, let's best use the other thread that won't stop growing into a tireless monster for the above kind of arguments (argumenting) v Embarrassed

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Edited by Ricochet - September 10 2008 at 16:46
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Points: 20563 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 16:45
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:



Only if you allow it to do so. You rated albums before on this website ... did that also take the beauty out of the music? I really doubt that ...
 
Describing how an album makes you feel, what is your opinion of the music has nothing to do with percentages and scales, the rating is only telling people how much you recommend an album, that's why I always said that ratings without reviews should not be allowed.



I love to read reviews, but I also like tags ... not just at PF, but also at other websites like last.fm. If someone assigns the tag "mellow" to an album, it's about the same as if he included the line "The music is quite mellow" in his review. Where's the difference?

Originally posted by Ican_Melgar_M Ican_Melgar_M wrote:



BTW: Above you said that for you a band is either not prog, prog-related or prog. Ok, so you're already rating progressiveness on a scale from 0 to 2.
 
No Mike, it's only a yes or no, nothing more.
 
Ask anybody do you love your mother is not the same as asking him in a 10 points chart, how much do you love your Mom?
 
Iván

[/QUOTE]

In all honesty: I think that that's not a fair analogy. PA users take music more serious than other people, but not *that* seriously ... or do they?Embarrassed


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - September 10 2008 at 16:45
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Points: 20563 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2008 at 16:51
Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ sorry, but both The Who and criticism of numbers and statistics is off topic ... maybe you could continue those discussions in other threads?Embarrassed


I'm not against your statistics, just to mention, Mike...Embarrassed

In fact, instead of this graphic, I can easily translate it all in which albums are progressive and which aren't (or I can easily misunderstand the thing, on the other hand LOL)...but that would pretty much be an argument in favour of Metallica having the stuff to enter prog...

NOT really! cause based on the infos on have on Metallica (for my super cool metal fan), Metallica and prog does not compute...or, better said, it best not compute...



Well, I would say that you should try to listen to the music yourself.

http://www.myspace.com/metallica

Unfortunately the myspace page - as usual - doesn't feature the more progressive tracks of the albums, but listen to One, Fade to Black and Battery. The latter is quite interesting as far as form is concerned.

Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:



here's where nuancing and not statistics works for me...if Metallica has manifested enough progressiveness compared to Metallica, I'd still think over if Metallica has manifested enough progressiveness compared to prog (not prog rock  necessarily, because I basically agree with the main lesson: prog rock ain't prog metal, viceversa likewise)

but you're right, let's best use the other thread that won't stop growing into a tireless monster for the above kind of arguments (argumenting) v Embarrassed

Thumbs%20Up


Most of us love a good argument ... Big%20smile
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Points: 1170 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2008 at 02:41
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

 
As I've said before elsewhere, I don't compare the progresiveness of metal with that of prog-rock in the same level.. for me are two different things... So Metallica is very prog in AJFA, but very prog-metal at that... Of course, compared with Genesis it's a 3.5, but compared with prog-metal is a 8.5, or maybe that'sd exaggerated.. let's give it a 7.5.....


So then if a Metallica album gets an 8.5 on a scale of 0-10 for progressive metal, then what on Earth would a maudlin of the Well get?!?!
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 20563 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2008 at 05:27
Originally posted by Avantgardehead Avantgardehead wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

 
As I've said before elsewhere, I don't compare the progresiveness of metal with that of prog-rock in the same level.. for me are two different things... So Metallica is very prog in AJFA, but very prog-metal at that... Of course, compared with Genesis it's a 3.5, but compared with prog-metal is a 8.5, or maybe that'sd exaggerated.. let's give it a 7.5.....


So then if a Metallica album gets an 8.5 on a scale of 0-10 for progressive metal, then what on Earth would a maudlin of the Well get?!?!


"a Metallica album" ... they're not all the same, so it depends on which album you're talking about. If it was Master of Puppets vs. Bath I'd say 5 vs. 7. I know that some would rank MotW higher on the progressiveness scale, but IMHO much of their progressiveness is actually "just" experimentation/avant-garde.
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Points: 46828 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2008 at 06:29
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:



 PA users take music more serious than other people, but not *that* seriously ... or do they?Embarrassed


LOLLOL how long have you been a collab? 
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Points: 20563 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2008 at 06:55
^ I'm a freak ... that's a given.LOL
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Points: 1321 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2008 at 13:26
Kill 'em All : 1.5
Ride the Lightning: 3
Master of Puppets: 4
And Justice For All: 4.5
Metallica: 3.5
Load: 3.5
Reload: 2
St Anger: 1
Death Magnetic (from what I heard in youtube): 3.5

EDIT: and no, Metallica doesn't belong in here at all.



Edited by Zitro - September 11 2008 at 13:27
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Points: 1170 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2008 at 14:43
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

I know that some would rank MotW higher on the progressiveness scale, but IMHO much of their progressiveness is actually "just" experimentation/avant-garde.


But experimental and avant-garde genres are listed here, so there's still merit to them.
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Points: 20563 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2008 at 15:05
^ I'm just saying that at least for me experimentation/avant-garde is not the same as progressiveness. I can't (yet) put my finger on it, but sometimes I get the feeling that the band is only trying to be as "non-conformist" as possible. In those cases I will not give them high progressiveness scores, although I'm quite aware that many other people would rate them highly. The opposite also happens ... sometimes I give high progressiveness scores to albums which aren't avant/experimental at all.
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2008 at 15:45
Originally posted by Avantgardehead Avantgardehead wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

 
As I've said before elsewhere, I don't compare the progresiveness of metal with that of prog-rock in the same level.. for me are two different things... So Metallica is very prog in AJFA, but very prog-metal at that... Of course, compared with Genesis it's a 3.5, but compared with prog-metal is a 8.5, or maybe that'sd exaggerated.. let's give it a 7.5.....


So then if a Metallica album gets an 8.5 on a scale of 0-10 for progressive metal, then what on Earth would a maudlin of the Well get?!?!
 
Mmm.... The band you mentioned (which I haven't heard but let's assume, as it is a Driver's band, sounds somewhat like Kayo Dot) may be more EXPERIMENTAL and, of course, "avant-garde". Progressive as in progressive-metal, it's another history. Let's say that, if we try to apply the definition and concepts from 70's prog-rock to both bands, Driver's band may be proggier as it's freer, more form-free. Metallica wouldn't score that high in such a case. But talking in progressive-METAL terms (I have explained what I think about the subject in my thread in the prog-lounge), obviously Metallica was a turning point in the genre's history (specially with MoP and AJFA) that Driver's band can't be, as it's barely even METAL in the first place.... (if it's like Kayo Dot's DAWCT.... because BLD is absolutely 0% metal)
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Points: 1170 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2008 at 15:47
For me, it's the way they seamlessly meld metal with jazz and more indie/alternative elements that make them progressive.

And T, you should really hear maudlin of the Well. It's nothing like Kayo Dot and it's the most metal thing Toby has ever done. You know, riffs, growls, guitar solos, double-bass, etc.


Edited by Avantgardehead - September 11 2008 at 15:51
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Points: 20563 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2008 at 16:07
^ In case you were wondering:



Smile
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2008 at 23:54
^Why the hell do you have TWO lines there? ConfusedTongue
 
I'd explore Maudlin of the Well... if I could get the cd.... (I hate mp3's, sorry)
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Points: 1170 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2008 at 01:59
eBay! The End!

I got all three albums for around $15 on eBay. But yes, this band is radically different than Kayo Dot and everything else Mr. Driver has done. He's one of those guys who's impossible to pigeonhole.
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Points: 20563 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2008 at 02:34
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

^Why the hell do you have TWO lines there? ConfusedTongue

I thought it would be self explanatory ... tho the left of the first line it says "Average (All Users)", to the left of the second line it says "MikeEnRegalia".
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:


I'd explore Maudlin of the Well... if I could get the cd.... (I hate mp3's, sorry)

mp3 today sounds as good as cd ... so if you really want the music, that shouldn't keep you.Smile
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Points: 20563 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2008 at 10:17
Cool ... Death Magnetic has just broken through into prog territory!Big%20smile
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