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Toaster Mantis View Drop Down
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    Posted: February 15 2015 at 08:51
Slavoj Zizek had a pretty interesting analysis of Breivik's proclaimed ideological worldview. The relevant quote:

Originally posted by Slavoj Zizek Slavoj Zizek wrote:

But what if we are entering an era where this new reasoning will impose itself? What if Europe should accept the paradox that its democratic openness is based on exclusion – that there is "no freedom for the enemies of freedom", as Robespierre put it long ago? In principle, this is, of course, true, but it is here that one has to be very specific. In a way, there was a vile logic to Breivik's choice of target: he didn't attack foreigners but those within his own community who were too tolerant towards intruding foreigners. The problem is not foreigners, it is our own (European) identity.

Although the ongoing crisis of the European Union appears as a crisis of economy and finances, it is in its fundamental dimension an ideologico-political crisis: the failure of referendums about the EU constitution a couple of years ago gave a clear signal that voters perceived the EU as a "technocratic" economic union, lacking any vision which could mobilise people – until the recent protests, the only ideology able to mobilise people was the anti-immigrant defence of Europe.


I'm not sure his two cents about the Charlie Hebdo attack have been posted here yet, so I'll link to the relevant article which follows a similar angle.

While I don't always agree with that many of Zizek's conclusions, as extreme as they might appear he usually brings an insightful perspective on things as he thinks more thoroughly about the fundamental issues at stake and from more interesting angles than most commentators. Not to mention that he's extremely entertaining to write.


Edited by Toaster Mantis - February 15 2015 at 09:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Argonaught Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2015 at 08:40
Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

So, around my neck of the woods there's been a terrorist attack against a free speech debate at a café and one against a synagogue. A person was killed in each's case. The synagogue is actually just next door to a public library that I went to in the afternoon before, so it's pretty damn scary.

I really hope this doesn't lead to some wannabe Anders Breivik type bombing a mosque as alleged retaliation...

From what I understand, Breivik didn't really retaliate against the perceived enemy. Instead, he murdered 70 or 80 of the very people he claimed he was "trying to protect against Cultural Marxism and Islamic takeover".  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toaster Mantis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2015 at 07:27
I'm under the impression that back during the 1970s, when various paramilitary groups affliated with Palestinian nationalism targeted Israelis and Jewish people in general a lot of stuff like this actually went down on a regular basis even being supported or carried out by gov't intelligence agencies, but we didn't hear about it that often because society wasn't quite as media-saturated back then.

The best example would probably be the Munich Olympics massace in 1972, and the Mossad retaliatory assassinations following, but a book that came out about the history of Danish military intelligence goes into detail about more examples happening in my country - like one incident when the military intelligence actually outsourced activities to far-right vigilante groups. In case you're curious its title is something like The War of the Spies by Hans Davidsen-Nielsen, no idea if it's been translated into other languages-

Truth is stranger than fiction...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CPicard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2015 at 07:03
This time, there's only one victim, but I fear that some fanatics and/or lunatics want to copycat the Charlie Hebdo massacres in their own countries.
In France, there had been some agressions against muslim people or various acts of vandalism against mosquees (such as pig heads stuck on doors of said mosquees) after the Charlie Hebdo shootings, and I fear that the whole European continent is on the verge of a pre-civil war turmoil... Unhappy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toaster Mantis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2015 at 06:22
So, around my neck of the woods there's been a terrorist attack against a free speech debate at a café and one against a synagogue. A person was killed in each's case. The synagogue is actually just next door to a public library that I went to in the afternoon before, so it's pretty damn scary.

I really hope this doesn't lead to some wannabe Anders Breivik type bombing a mosque as alleged retaliation...
"Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité. Choose one." - Lemmy Kilmister
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote refugee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2015 at 16:29
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:



Anyway, we are seeing a rise of the far right in various EU nations, Greece perhaps most notably. This always happens in times of economic hardship, as the unintelligent seek groups of people to blame. They're not bright enough to figure out how their government is shafting them all equally.


Five days before the Greek election, it looks like SYRIZA, the Coalition of the Radical Left, will win and the new prime minister will be Alexis Tsipras – much to Merkel’s annoyance. According to the last polls the neo nazi party Golden Dawn will get 5.5%, down from 6.9 in the last election.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2015 at 06:25
^^^ Well I guess no country is completely immune from economic hardship, independent or otherwise, but you could argue it's all relative. The countries in the EU area doing the best are those that are not actually part of the union; Switzerland & Norway notably.

You don't hear much about that in British media, which are overtly pro-EU membership. The liberal media equates Euro-skepticism to racism, which is very misleading and wholly incorrect. It's just a shame that the skeptic side of the argument is put forward most strongly by a racist party in the UK.

Anyway, we are seeing a rise of the far right in various EU nations, Greece perhaps most notably. This always happens in times of economic hardship, as the unintelligent seek groups of people to blame. They're not bright enough to figure out how their government is shafting them all equally.

Anyway, what happened in France this week is appalling and tragic and I just hope people come together in defiance of Islamic extremism, including Muslims.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JJLehto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 20:51
We all know about the terrible events that unfolded in France, and enough time has now passed to get some true sense of what has happened: 4 people have been involved in some coherent fashion with the Charlie Hebdo shooting, the shooting of a random police officer, and 2 hostage situations including one at a Kosher Market. 3 of the terrorists killed, one still on the loose. 

Terrible events that have not only taken lives but are a pretty direct attack on Freedom of Speech and the Jewish community. 
I am just glad it's resolved, for now, and pray they capture the woman still on the run and it will be the end of this tragedy. 


I also hope politics don't take a wicked turn in France and Europe, I know this issue is a sensitive one plus poor economic conditions have already created much public unhappiness. That said, perhaps some things should be rationally discussed, like the Schengen Area. Perhaps even the EU and if its worth countries pursuing more independent economic policy, free from austerity which I am of the opinion harms the economy. Which of course creates anger amongst the people. 
See it here in the US, economic struggling really has taken a toll on the people and this anger/despair has allowed some shocking political ideologies to get mainstream. 


Edited by JJLehto - January 09 2015 at 21:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stonebeard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2015 at 01:54
I'm not prepared to comment on what trans people should feel or should do. With what they have to deal with internally and externally, they have my sympathy and I'll try to be understanding.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2015 at 01:11
Originally posted by Ozark Soundscape Ozark Soundscape wrote:

I'm not saying she could've acted more sensibly. What I am saying is it sounds like you're blaming the victim.

For the act itself (if "blaming" is the word you want to use), not for how her parents treated her. Not really blaming her, but the parents. Suicide is a choice, but you have to rationalize it.

Originally posted by Luna Luna wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Well, s#$t happens.
sh*t happens like people who have complete control over you ...
What?! No one ever has any complete control over you on any level. Maybe except for physical abuse, which is illegal, which is common sense.

Originally posted by Luna Luna wrote:

I think you implying that she was weak is unnecessary and derogatory.
Suicide - unnecessary (again, given the circumstances), yes. Disrespectful, no. Disappointing, yes.

Originally posted by Luna Luna wrote:

Suicide has been a problem since people have existed.
An effect can never be deemed problematic unless it's a cause for another problematic effect. In general, if you are not satisfied with the effect, then it's the cause that is the problem. In this case, the problem is poor parenting. That has been a problem since man came around.

Originally posted by Luna Luna wrote:

The treatment of transgender people is what makes this story unique and worth posting.
By that logic, things like Flawless with Hoffman and DeNiro are unique, which makes the story less unique. No. What makes the story unique is things as silly as suicide over not fitting into the straight world, instead of making a life for yourself by yourself (or with the help of others).


Edited by Dayvenkirq - January 05 2015 at 01:25
"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2015 at 23:46
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Well, s#$t happens.
sh*t happens like people who have complete control over you forcing to be someone that you most definitely aren't. I think you implying that she was weak is unnecessary and derogatory. Suicide has been a problem since people have existed. The treatment of transgender people is what makes this story unique and worth posting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ozark Soundscape Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2015 at 22:22
I'm not saying she could've acted more sensibly. What I am saying is it sounds like you're victim blaming.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2015 at 19:49
^ "her parents were a massive contributing factor to her decline in mental health, cutting her off from the internet" - I don't see that in the article.

"I think it's more important to focus not on her suicide, but what drove her there. And it's easy to see, at least from my point of view, that her parents were ... stopping her from expressing her self, forcing her to be someone she wasn't. That should be the focus." - Well, s#$t happens. That's the universal dharma. I don't care how young you are, deal with it. All transgender people, no matter how young they are, should be able to deal with that. Still, killing yourself over that - that's one of the damndest things I've ever read.
"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ozark Soundscape Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2014 at 14:13
That may be true, but I think it's more important to focus not on her suicide, but what drove her there. And it's easy to see, at least from my point of view, that her parents were a massive contributing factor to her decline in mental health, cutting her off from the internet, stopping her from expressing her self, forcing her to be someone she wasn't. That should be the focus.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2014 at 02:17
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

^ That's my point.
I got it, now UnhappyHug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2014 at 02:07
^ That's my point.
"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2014 at 01:48
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

^ As much as I hate the idea of suicide being illegal in this country (just my honest opinion), I really think that when it comes down to it, with great freedom comes great responsibility. An apology to closest friends won't cut it, or they aren't real friends. Besides, there are always alternatives; why go down to the bottom of the list?
this is a difficult and sensitive matter, because no matter how much you are hurt on the inside and suffer from a deep unhappy depression, there are those who will be left behind that care for you and this will cause them deep pain and suffering by the suicide act. Unhappy Sad, all this Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2014 at 01:40
^ As much as I hate the idea of suicide being illegal in this country (just my honest opinion), I really think that when it comes down to it, with great freedom comes great responsibility. An apology to closest friends won't cut it, or they aren't real friends. Besides, there are always alternatives; why go down to the bottom of the list?

Edited by Dayvenkirq - December 31 2014 at 01:41
"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ozark Soundscape Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2014 at 21:45
I don't post here usually but this has me more angry than I've been in a long time. No parent should bring a child into this world if they aren't prepared to love them unconditionally.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Argonaught Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2014 at 19:06
Originally posted by akamaisondufromage akamaisondufromage wrote:

 Hostage situation in Sydney.  Martin Place and looks like there is a Black 'Islamic State' Flag being displayed.  Hope everything has a peaceful outcome. 

I don't know how peaceful outcome is possible. These hostage-takers are not there to negotiate a $1M ransom in small unmarked bills and safe passage to Bekibekistan; neither are they human in the cultural sense. 
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