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thellama73 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thellama73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 06:51
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

^ think typical Fox "News" viewer knowledge...




Yes, hooray for murderers! Clever and insightful as usual, Slarti.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CPicard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 08:48
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

^ think typical Fox "News" viewer knowledge...




Yes, hooray for murderers! Clever and insightful as usual, Slarti.


Oh, yeah? And who Chavez had killed? RCTV?
And if you're talking about the 2002 failed coup d'état, I do not think that the partisans of Chavez were wrong for using weapons against a junta trying to overthrow a president elected by a regular democratic suffrage.

By the way, Slartibartfast, I'm not sure to understand your comment. Does it mean that you think I'm a Fox "News" viewer?
Just to clarify a few things: I'm French, I don't have access to Fox News and I'm not interested in this media.
Last thing: some people should check other threads to find about my political ideas:
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90991&PN=3
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 11:40
^He certainly wasn't a big murderer like Castro or other dictators of all colors I give you that. He kiled freedom of expression and press, that's true. Chavez' phenomenon is quite difficult to understand probably to you Europeans or Americans who haven't lived in the type of environment that fosters populism and this type of "Messiah" syndrome typical of South America. Poverty and the mentality of the region breed this. Chavez was just extremely successful in controlling power because he adopted tactics from and learned from the best at maintaining power: Castro and his regime. His attack on the wealthy are part tactic to create an enemy and polarize his voters, but part justified because corruption in the area simply is in a different level, and it's a fact that it has been the wealthy and powerful who have kept a continent with more natural resources than most down and unable to become fully first world as it should (Chile might be closer to that). 

My country has a Chavez-like president, democratically elected (it's very easy to become re-electable forever, you know: give assistance to the poor without bringing them out of poverty, control the media, control the Congress so you have a constitution tailor made for you, limit policial campaigning to the maximum but don't limit government's self-promotion, and build roads and hospitals with the money your country gets from oil exports. Also, it doesn't hurt if you create an enemy, abroad -the US- and within -the wealthy, or "pelucones" as Correa calles them in Ecuador). My country of origin is quite less free than it used to be but it also is a fact that the economy has somewhat improved (if the prices of oil go down too much, there's a risk that could stop). 

Chavez, Correa, Morales, Ortega, they share many traits and sins. Some of them are much more intelligent (Correa the most without a doubt), some are plain idiotic buffoons (Ortega) but they have learned how to manipulate the electorate and keep power. Having said that, it also IS a fact that the cries for libertarianism and zero government that make sense in the US would totally destroy countries in SouthAmerica that are still in the hands of plutocratic oligarchies that do and undo at will. It also IS a fact that people don't die for lack of healthcare in Venezuela or even Ecuador as they do in "first world" US. Yes, freedom might not be as "free", people can't own guns, but other things that for most are more valuable are becoming universal. It's understandable why the poor cry and mourn Chavez. Logan and others, don't think this is a simple North Korea-type brainwash funeral. This is REAL. And it has reasons. 

In all, I don't like Chavez (much less Correa) but I can't paint them as black or white, good or evil, they have (had in the case of Chavez) done certain things for their countries that are good, and they have kicked the US dominance of the area out (I love the US, I am its citizen, but I don't see why the US has to decide what happens in other sovereign countries, like it did decades ago in many countries in South America). The whole "Fox News"-"Msnbc", "R"-"D" two-faced debate of the US doesn't work in this case. And neither does it just reading the good things about Chavez from an Oliver Stone or Moore's blog and think that is all there is about this type of regime. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 12:12
If Chavez followers are not elected, some countries will be in deep trouble

1) Cuba: No URSS, No Venezuela...Good bye Castro brothers
2) Bolivia: Evo Moralers survives only because of Chavez support
3) Ortega: His situation is critic.

Probably Correa in Ecuador will survive for some time, but without the oil money, he's doom, because Colombia is much more powerful.

What i have to thank is that the myth of that b*****d called Simon Bolivar is almost dead, that guy was a disaster for Perú, he made a constitution where he was elected lifetime President of Perú, luckily we threw him out, because the guy gave Peruvian territories to Ecuador, Colombia and Bolivia.

Our only Liberator is Don José de San Martín, who refused the presidency in 1824 because he claimed he came to free a country, not to become a dictator.




Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - March 08 2013 at 12:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CPicard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 12:12
@The T: I can agree with you: since the death of Chavez, I've read balanced articles from the left-wing press - which is far from being monolithic in France - and understood that the "Chavez case" wasn't so easy to "judge".

But I had been stunned to hear his corpse was going to be embalmed!
Embalmed! Come on, Venezuela!
A national funeral is the less a country can do for its dead president (especially if the president died when in function), but embalming him!... What next? A pyramide???



Edited by CPicard - March 08 2013 at 12:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 12:18
Originally posted by CPicard CPicard wrote:

 

But I had been stunned to hear his corpse was going to be embalmed!
Embalmed! Come on, Venezuela!
A national funeral is the less a country can do for its dead president (especially if the president died when in function), but embalming him!... What next? A pyramide???


Was going to be embalmed?

He is embalmed for almost a month.

Please, the Popes embalmer MASSIMO SIGNORACCI, reached Cuba on February..WHY?

Chavez was dead since then, this a theater to allow Maduro being  President Ad Tempore and control the elections
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CPicard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 12:25
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by CPicard CPicard wrote:

 

But I had been stunned to hear his corpse was going to be embalmed!
Embalmed! Come on, Venezuela!
A national funeral is the less a country can do for its dead president (especially if the president died when in function), but embalming him!... What next? A pyramide???


Was going to be embalmed?

He is embalmed for almost a month.

Please, the Popes embalmer MASSIMO SIGNORACCI, reached Cuba on February..WHY?



Not for the cigars, the rum and the beaches?

What a sick, sad world where even tourists seem to be unable to have fun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 12:25
Just like Lenin, his body will be a tourist attraction now. I'm sure he would have approved it (unlike Lenin).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 12:34
Originally posted by CPicard CPicard wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by CPicard CPicard wrote:

 

But I had been stunned to hear his corpse was going to be embalmed!
Embalmed! Come on, Venezuela!
A national funeral is the less a country can do for its dead president (especially if the president died when in function), but embalming him!... What next? A pyramide???


Was going to be embalmed?

He is embalmed for almost a month.

Please, the Popes embalmer MASSIMO SIGNORACCI, reached Cuba on February..WHY?



Not for the cigars, the rum and the beaches?

What a sick, sad world where even tourists seem to be unable to have fun.

Exactly the same day that a Spanish newspaper announced Chavez death?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 12:35
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:


If Chavez followers are not elected, some countries will be in deep trouble
1) Cuba: No URSS, No Venezuela...Good bye Castro brothers
2) Bolivia: Evo Moralers survives only because of Chavez support
3) Ortega: His situation is critic.
Probably Correa in Ecuador will survive for some time, but without the oil money, he's doom, because Colombia is much more powerful.
What i have to thank is that the myth of that b*****d called Simon Bolivar is almost dead, that guy was a disaster for Perú, he made a constitution where he was elected lifetime President of Perú, luckily we threw him out, because the guy gave Peruvian territories to Ecuador, Colombia and Bolivia.
Our only Liberator is Don José de San Martín, who refused the presidency in 1824 because he claimed he came to free a country, not to become a dictator.



1. They will endure. Their hold on power is too firm. They will continue down a path of progressive "capitalist-ization" though.
2. Evo is an idiot but in a country with such a high percentage of natives, he has that trump card playing for him.
3. Ortega is nothing. He will collapse sooner or later regardless of foreign support.

Correa? He, unlike these morons, is smart. He will not become an all-in-all dictator and will continue to play intelligently, leaving the door open for inversion and economic improvement but maintaining a firm hold on the institutions of power, including public expression. If oil revenues go down, his reign would be in peril, BUT:

And this is a big but: in South America years of supposed liberalism (not "US liberalism" but proper free-enterprise one) brought about chaos and misery. The rich got richer and the poor got miserable. Capitalism lost credibility long ago even though it never existed in the first place. What existed was a total rule of economic elites partnered with foreign interests. That has created an anti-US and anti-liberalism climate in the continent that helps the regimes perpetuate themselves in power regardless of other factors. In Andean countries the racial factor has also been skillfully played, blaming old white elites for all the tragedies of natives. And partly, it is true.

Now, in other matters, you understand Ivan this is not a Peru forum and some people will not cry about what happened to your country couple of centuries ago? I would like to see a better explanation of why Bolivar is a b*****d (something I might agree with) other than "he robbed Peru".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CPicard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 12:36
Don't we forget the headlines in France: a dead mouse in a can on green beans (sorry, but this article is in french):
http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/societe/20130308.AFP5927/une-souris-morte-retrouvee-dans-une-boite-de-haricots-verts-de-carrefour.html

And a video (still in French, but the pictures are understandable):
http://www.leparisien.fr/paris-75/video-il-decouvre-une-souris-morte-dans-ses-haricots-verts-07-03-2013-2624171.php


Edited by CPicard - March 09 2013 at 10:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 12:51
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:


Now, in other matters, you understand Ivan this is not a Peru forum and some people will not cry about what happened to your country couple of centuries ago? I would like to see a better explanation of why Bolivar is a b*****d (something I might agree with) other than "he robbed Peru".

It's not about my country T

Is about Latin America

  1. He wanted to be the King of Latin America
  2. Divided otherwise strong country into smaller ones easier to manipulate.
  3. He's the origin of the hate between countries as Perú - Ecuador; Ecuador - Colombia; Colombia - Venezuela
And he was elevated to the category of semi-god by Chavez.

I just wish that with Chavez, Bolivar dies at last.

I honestly have sorrow for Chavez, no matter how much I disagree with him, he fought for his life and was a brave man, but some leaches around him want to perpetuate themselves in the power
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote markosherrera Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 15:01
Ivan I recommend you read a little more, even wikipedia to learn a little more about Bolivar, the union sought political, economic, territorial between countries, but were oligarchies Colombian, Ecuadorian and Peruvian which prompted the division, on the other Bolivia side was a disputed territory that Argentina and Peru, only that they agreed Bolivar and San Martin
Chavez did much for Latin American integration, and gave many benefits for the poor, the excluded of Venezuela and other countries, I recommend you investigate a little more and not be misled by the right-wing propaganda that serves only the interests of minority privilege oppressive



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sim%C3%B3n_Bol%C3%ADvar


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Ch%C3%A1vez


Edited by markosherrera - March 08 2013 at 15:11
Hi progmaniacs of all the world
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote markosherrera Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 20:34
 

Edited by markosherrera - March 08 2013 at 20:49
Hi progmaniacs of all the world
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rushfan4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2013 at 10:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King of Loss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2013 at 11:36

Zizou 1988-2006
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rushfan4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2013 at 11:50
Yep, nothing like making reservations 2 months ahead of time and paying $800 to get diarrhea.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2013 at 12:04
Originally posted by markosherrera markosherrera wrote:

Ivan I recommend you read a little more, even wikipedia to learn a little more about Bolivar, the union sought political, economic, territorial between countries, but were oligarchies Colombian, Ecuadorian and Peruvian which prompted the division, on the other Bolivia side was a disputed territory that Argentina and Peru, only that they agreed Bolivar and San Martin
Chavez did much for Latin American integration, and gave many benefits for the poor, the excluded of Venezuela and other countries, I recommend you investigate a little more and not be misled by the right-wing propaganda that serves only the interests of minority privilege oppressive



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sim%C3%B3n_Bol%C3%ADvar


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Ch%C3%A1vez

I studied history in the university Markos

Biolivar created a lifetime constitution with him as the only President foer as long as he lived...

In 1826, without consult or elections, he declared the Lifetime Constitution in which he was named lifetime President and divided Perú confirming the existence of Bolivia (Alto Perú) in honor of himself. We threw him out of Perú as the pig he was, in six months and his lifetime constitution was the shorter of the history of our country.

We have fought the power of Don Fernando, we didn't wanted another king named Don Simón.

That's a dictator who created a country in his honor with Peruvian territory he had no right to give,

Chavez wasted the money of Venezuela paying thousands of millions to Cuba, Bolivia, etc, the income of Venezuelans has gone dramatically down, the country is divided (50/50) and at the border of a civil war.

That's his legacy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2013 at 16:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2013 at 06:00
North Korea is demanding 'an apology' from South Korea for what it calls an 'open declaration of war' This comes just days after NK tore up the 'non aggression' pacts with the south, and threatened to nuke the US..

RT article

It seems their new boy leader is turning out to be an even bigger tw&t than his father.

Edited by Blacksword - March 10 2013 at 06:42
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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