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A dramatic turn of events

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darkshade View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: A dramatic turn of events
    Posted: November 08 2011 at 12:50
Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by darkshade

The best, most consistent album they've had in a while, and best overall album since Scenes From A Memory or Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence.

I wish that were true. Or at least I wish I could agree with you. To me it is their least appealing since Octavarium


I actually like Octavarium as well. It's a little inconsistent, but the weaker songs work in the context of the album. It's their last 2 albums that are slightly hit or miss; more hit though, especially on the last album.

You only listened to ADTOE once? You should listen a couple more times.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote DisgruntledPorcupine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 12:52
Meh. Octavarium has the title track (which is one of my favourite songs ever), Sacrificed Sons, and The Root of All Evil for great songs. But then you got just a bunch of average-bad songs. I find I Walk Beside You, Panic Attack, and Never Enough to be amongst their worst songs. Just my opinion though.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 12:57
Originally posted by DisgruntledPorcupine

Meh. Octavarium has the title track (which is one of my favourite songs ever), Sacrificed Sons, and The Root of All Evil for great songs. But then you got just a bunch of average-bad songs. I find I Walk Beside You, Panic Attack, and Never Enough to be amongst their worst songs. Just my opinion though.


I agree with you, though I don't consider Panic Attack or Never Enough some of their worst, they're just not as good as other songs. I think These Walls is one of the better ones too, seeing that you missed that one. I just like the transitions between the tracks, which is not something you usually get on a DT album.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 13:40
Its an above average album for me. Songs like Outcry, This Is the Life are very boring...Even hearing Outcry live I found my mind wandering. On the Backs of Angels is decent at best......Bridges In the Sky, Build Me Up and Breaking All Illusions are the best in that order for me.
 
Its a so-so album with Scenes, SDoIT and ToT much better to me. Maybe the next one will hit on all cylinders with Mangini on site to contribute more, rather than via email only.
      
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 13:48
I must admit I haven't even listened to the thing yet. Really must get round to doing so.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote JS19 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 14:01
Originally posted by darkshade

^ In terms of raw technical ability; there are jazz, flamenco, and classical musicians that would make most prog musicians pee their pants

In my opinion, DT are one of the exceptions. Petrucci, Myung, Portnoy, Sherinian, Rudess and Mangini are all some of the most skilled musicians around today.

Love DT, but this just isn't true. Some of the most skilled ROCK musicians ok sure, but not even close to your Classical.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 14:03
Originally posted by JS19

Originally posted by darkshade

^ In terms of raw technical ability; there are jazz, flamenco, and classical musicians that would make most prog musicians pee their pants

In my opinion, DT are one of the exceptions. Petrucci, Myung, Portnoy, Sherinian, Rudess and Mangini are all some of the most skilled musicians around today.

Love DT, but this just isn't true. Some of the most skilled ROCK musicians ok sure, but not even close to your Classical.


Well it's not mine. It's everyone's. Wink

I was just talking about raw ability. Sure, plenty of jazz and classical musicians can do things that the DT guys cannot do. But the difference in ability between jazz / classical musicians and most prog musicians is pretty big.

And Ive heard Rudess, Pretrucci and Myung pull off jazz and classical stuff in the past, so it is not too beyond their reach.


Edited by darkshade - November 08 2011 at 14:05
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Post Options Post Options   Quote DisgruntledPorcupine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 14:36
Originally posted by darkshade

Originally posted by DisgruntledPorcupine

Meh. Octavarium has the title track (which is one of my favourite songs ever), Sacrificed Sons, and The Root of All Evil for great songs. But then you got just a bunch of average-bad songs. I find I Walk Beside You, Panic Attack, and Never Enough to be amongst their worst songs. Just my opinion though.


I agree with you, though I don't consider Panic Attack or Never Enough some of their worst, they're just not as good as other songs. I think These Walls is one of the better ones too, seeing that you missed that one. I just like the transitions between the tracks, which is not something you usually get on a DT album.
These Walls is pretty good, but I'm not as into it as the others I mentioned.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TheMasterMofo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2011 at 19:42
Originally posted by JS19

Originally posted by darkshade

^ In terms of raw technical ability; there are jazz, flamenco, and classical musicians that would make most prog musicians pee their pants

In my opinion, DT are one of the exceptions. Petrucci, Myung, Portnoy, Sherinian, Rudess and Mangini are all some of the most skilled musicians around today.

Love DT, but this just isn't true. Some of the most skilled ROCK musicians ok sure, but not even close to your Classical.


I disagree fully here. I think a lot of "classical" musicians get undue props in technical prowess just because they play "Classical" music. Sure, there are some people that can shred a classical guitar up; anyone who can play Barrios' La Catedral: Allegro Solemne, for example, but Petrucci can easily hang with and even surpass the vast majority of them with his own technical ability.

Classical musicians usually have a more disciplined technique than "rock" guitarists, but as someone who played classical guitar before ever getting into prog, I have to support Mr. Petrucci here.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Believil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 02:50
Dream Theater have Jordan Rudess, a musician like him... the rest of the band is forced to do amazing things.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote DavetheSlave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 03:10
Originally posted by darkshade

^ In terms of raw technical ability; there are jazz, flamenco, and classical musicians that would make most prog musicians pee their pants

In my opinion, DT are one of the exceptions. Petrucci, Myung, Portnoy, Sherinian, Rudess and Mangini are all some of the most skilled musicians around today.
 
Jazz, Flamenco and classical musicians would stand up to the abilities of Carlos Santana, Hendrix, Vai, Petrucci, Trower, Gary Moore, Blackmore, Rudess, Emmerson, Bruford, Portnoy, etc etc    uuuuummmmmm    no!
Maybe in terms of their own specific genre yes but in terms of pure technical ability not a snowball hope in a volcano. It's been done and tried - who remembers Sky?  J Williams vs any number of Rock and Prog guitarists (say Hackett) and I know who I would vote for and it aint the classical boy.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 03:55
^ When you walk down the street, does a blistering legato Petrucci solo pop into your head note for note or like the rest of us, do you find yourself whistling a much simpler but naggingly resilient melody? I'm not undermining your passionate regard for the technical abilities of DT but does music have to be hard to play or remember before you can allow yourself to enjoy it?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote DavetheSlave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 04:25
Originally posted by ExittheLemming

^ When you walk down the street, does a blistering legato Petrucci solo pop into your head note for note or like the rest of us, do you find yourself whistling a much simpler but naggingly resilient melody? I'm not undermining your passionate regard for the technical abilities of DT but does music have to be hard to play or remember before you can allow yourself to enjoy it?
 
Walking down the road I'm kind of drawn to the melodies from the latest Anubis album lately, sometimes to old Genesis, the Haken albums that I got into recently, old Uriah Heep  etc Smile
 
When I want to be blown away I spool up a Dream Theater live dvd and sit with my mouth hanging open - lol.
 
When I'm driving then there are a few Golden Earring numbers I enjoy.
 
When I want to mellow out - Hogarth era Marillion, Camel, Focus etc.
 
Different courses for different occasions I guess.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TheMasterMofo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 05:15
Originally posted by ExittheLemming

^ When you walk down the street, does a blistering legato Petrucci solo pop into your head note for note or like the rest of us, do you find yourself whistling a much simpler but naggingly resilient melody? I'm not undermining your passionate regard for the technical abilities of DT but does music have to be hard to play or remember before you can allow yourself to enjoy it?



Petrucci solos have always stuck in my head really well... I can "mouth guitar" most DT albums all the way through, especially the solos.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 06:45
Originally posted by darkshade

^ In terms of raw technical ability; there are jazz, flamenco, and classical musicians that would make most prog musicians pee their pants

In my opinion, DT are one of the exceptions. Petrucci, Myung, Portnoy, Sherinian, Rudess and Mangini are all some of the most skilled musicians around today.
Petrucci is no Bireli Lagrene.......
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Post Options Post Options   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 10:52
You guys are missing the point. I'm not comparing the DT guys to any other musicians in other genres. I'm just saying the level of technical skill between them and other musicians is not a huge difference compared to other prog musicians

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Believil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2011 at 02:39
I think sometimes we confuse the technique with musicality, the technique for a musician is like reading for a writer, their knowledge of technique and the instrument will help to express yourself with your music, and with technique find your musicalit. the skill is not only for skill the music, the skill is for get more ways and colours hue in your musical expression.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TheMasterMofo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2011 at 04:35
Originally posted by Jbird

Originally posted by darkshade

^ In terms of raw technical ability; there are jazz, flamenco, and classical musicians that would make most prog musicians pee their pants

In my opinion, DT are one of the exceptions. Petrucci, Myung, Portnoy, Sherinian, Rudess and Mangini are all some of the most skilled musicians around today.
Petrucci is no Bireli Lagrene.......


Correct. In terms of technical ability he's better.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jampa17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2012 at 23:30
Well, back to the topic, there's a couple of things I like to point out:

1- breathing space. It's evident that Rudess had more input and stop been a hired gun to play fancy solos. Now he is back to back with Petrucci in composition matters and even Myung is more audible.

2- Labrie's home. It is nice to hear an entire album wrote on his key tone and he sounds really great, especially in the ballads. I think it was good for them to have that space away from Portnoy, though I wonder how would be the input of Mangini if he was aloud to compose with them. Guess we'll have to wait Still...
Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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