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ERRORS THREAD Report Errors and Omissions Here
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nick_h_nz View Drop Down
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Points: 6737 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2022 at 15:20
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

^ Oh my God! Bandcamp is not the whole world, for example this release on Discogs mentions Adam Warne. Obviously you can't replace the name on all possible resources.

 Dead name (now New name) - role. 

if you want it written like this, go ahead and edit the line-ups. 

Well-mannered people usually clean up after themselves. Wink
But no problem, it will not hurt my pride to "go ahead". 

Oh, that is crossing the line. Cristi has been far more well-mannered than you, and has absolutely no need to clean up. There is nothing that “needs” to be cleaned up.

You may be in Russia, but if you were in the UK you would be breaking the law by the way you have been speaking. If you were in a job, you could be fired for the way you have been speaking. I know you don’t mean to be, because all I have seen from you in the past paints you to be a good person, but some of what you say is blatantly transphobic.
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Points: 6737 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2022 at 15:17
We don’t “need” anything. Because this was never an issue when PA was set up, there was never a policy made for this circumstance. Just as there was not for a site such as RYM - and as little as five years ago, they were still using a combination of dead name and new name. RYM now have a policy of not using the dead name, despite many of their users claiming they “need” to.

From a cataloguing point of view, I can completely understand wanting to use the dead name in addition to the new name, for any release that originally came out with the dead name credited. That is why I made the suggestion of taking the Wiki route.

But, as Cristi has said, if YOU want it that way, then YOU are able to change it to that. Cristi did what he felt was right, by changing the name to how it appears on any site managed by the band. I don’t think he was wrong to do that, and I don’t think you would be wrong to go the Wiki route, The only wrong option, really, is to keep using the dead name, and only the dead name.
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Points: 41382 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2022 at 15:17
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

So editing a line-up is not helping?
I think Genre Teams are "locomotives" of this site, making the most of sughificant work and principal changes, while we (Errors & Omissions team) are only a helping hand.

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

So editing a line-up is not helping? 
Why are we still having this conversation? 
What is the mistake that I made?
 
We still having this conversation because in my (and, as we see in this thread, not only my) opinion replacing the name in all releases (including the old ones, when "new name" didn't exist) is a cataloguing error.

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

What is the best resource of the band's line-up? (If not their official site and bandcamp). 
I think the one and only "true" resource doesn't exist. I guess the band uses new name on their official site and bandcamp in order to please their colleague. But old CDs, LPs etc still list the old name. To prevent confusion, we need both, old and new, names for the releases made before the change of the name.  

You can have both names like you suggested above. 

If they released CDs/vinyls and so on, have the name as written there. If it means so much, fine. 
Contact the band, ask them what name should be on the albums, old or new. 

If there are only bandcamp releases, have the name written on the bandcamp page of the album. 

The best resources is the band's official sites. That's why I didn't see my change as controversial. 
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Points: 7687 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NotAProghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2022 at 15:15
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

^ Oh my God! Bandcamp is not the whole world, for example this release on Discogs mentions Adam Warne. Obviously you can't replace the name on all possible resources.

 Dead name (now New name) - role. 

if you want it written like this, go ahead and edit the line-ups. 

Well-mannered people usually clean up after themselves. Wink
But no problem, it will not hurt my pride to "go ahead". 
Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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Points: 7687 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NotAProghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2022 at 15:07
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

So editing a line-up is not helping?
I think Genre Teams are "locomotives" of this site, making the most of sughificant work and principal changes, while we (Errors & Omissions team) are only a helping hand.

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

So editing a line-up is not helping? 
Why are we still having this conversation? 
What is the mistake that I made?
 
We still having this conversation because in my (and, as we see in this thread, not only my) opinion replacing the name in all releases (including the old ones, when "new name" didn't exist) is a cataloguing error.

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

What is the best resource of the band's line-up? (If not their official site and bandcamp). 
I think the one and only "true" resource doesn't exist. I guess the band uses new name on their official site and bandcamp in order to please their colleague. But old CDs, LPs etc still list the old name. To prevent confusion, we need both, old and new, names for the releases made before the change of the name.  
Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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Points: 41382 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2022 at 14:56
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

^ Oh my God! Bandcamp is not the whole world, for example this release on Discogs mentions Adam Warne. Obviously you can't replace the name on all possible resources.

 Dead name (now New name) - role. 

if you want it written like this, go ahead and edit the line-ups. 
 


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Points: 6737 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2022 at 14:53
You’ve made absolutely no mistake, Cristi. Thank you for your help.
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Points: 41382 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2022 at 14:42
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

^ What does it mean "I thought I was helping"? You're a member of Crossover team and the band on PA belongs to this genre. I think in this case you're a bit more than just a helper.

In my opinion it would be fair if everyone would fix his own let's say (for the lack of a better word) imperfect changes. 

Am I wrong?

So editing a line-up is not helping? 
Why are we still having this conversation? 
What is the mistake that I made? 
What is the best resource of the band's line-up? (If not their official site and bandcamp). 
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Points: 7687 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NotAProghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2022 at 14:38
^ What does it mean "I thought I was helping"? You're a member of Crossover team and the band on PA belongs to this genre. I think in this case you're a bit more than just a helper.

In my opinion it would be fair if everyone would fix his own let's say (for the lack of a better word) imperfect changes. 

Am I wrong?
Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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Points: 41382 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2022 at 14:19
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

^ Oh my God! Bandcamp is not the whole world, for example this release on Discogs mentions Adam Warne. Obviously you can't replace the name on all possible resources.

Even nick_h_nz writes: 
for albums where the dead name was the original name in the credits for the original release, then I would expect to see “Name (formerly known as/originally known on this release as [dead name] - role played as a member”

I can onlly add that usually on newer re-releases we see it in a slightly different order, i.e. Dead name (now New name) - role. 

I don't see the controversy here, if I saw any, I wouldn't have changed the name. I honestly already regret it. I won't do it anymore. And here I (naively) thought I was helping. 
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Points: 7687 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NotAProghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2022 at 14:16
^ Oh my God! Bandcamp is not the whole world, for example this release on Discogs mentions Adam Warne. Obviously you can't replace the name on all possible resources.

Even nick_h_nz writes: 
for albums where the dead name was the original name in the credits for the original release, then I would expect to see “Name (formerly known as/originally known on this release as [dead name] - role played as a member”

I can onlly add that usually on newer re-releases we see it in a slightly different order, i.e. Dead name (now New name) - role. 
Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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Points: 41382 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2022 at 13:59
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

That is that for albums where the dead name was the original name in the credits for the original release, then I would expect to see “Name (formerly known as/originally known on this release as [desd name] - role played as a member”. The dead name would obviously not be needed for any releases which carried credits for the name by which the person now wishes to be known.

But all SYNAESTHESIA / KYROS releases contain now only new name.
Would you (or Cristi) like to rearrange them the way you'd expect? Wink

I'll say it again.
Can we move on, all releases on bandcamp have the name Shelby Logan Warne. I've done nothing wrong. 
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Points: 7687 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NotAProghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2022 at 13:48
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

That is that for albums where the dead name was the original name in the credits for the original release, then I would expect to see “Name (formerly known as/originally known on this release as [desd name] - role played as a member”. The dead name would obviously not be needed for any releases which carried credits for the name by which the person now wishes to be known.

But all SYNAESTHESIA / KYROS releases contain now only new name.
Would you (or Cristi) like to rearrange them the way you'd expect? Wink
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^ Sad but true. Cry
Thanks, done.
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Points: 3383 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2022 at 10:33
As much as I hate to suggest this, we should probably update the Klaus Schulze, Vangelis and Peter Frohmader biographies to reflect their recent passing.

Edited by Gordy - May 22 2022 at 10:34
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Points: 41382 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2022 at 09:43
Originally posted by mbzr48 mbzr48 wrote:

http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=57278

EP not studio

ok, fixed!
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http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=57278

EP not studio
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Points: 6737 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2022 at 13:13
Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

From my, archival/cataloguing, point of view, PA should include all names that have been attached to productions. If, as consequence, you consider me transphobic, then I think (and I personally know) you're wrong.

Of course it doesn’t make you transphobic, because it is what has already been proposed. That is that for albums where the dead name was the original name in the credits for the original release, then I would expect to see “Name (formerly known as/originally known on this release as [desd name] - role played as a member”. The dead name would obviously not be needed for any releases which carried credits for the name by which the person now wishes to be known.
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Points: 8745 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote suitkees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2022 at 13:09
^ True. But since the PA owners excel in absence and don't seem to give a damn about how the PA database evolves, I don't think there's a point to creating a specific thread about it.

The razamataz is a pain in the bum
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Points: 41382 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2022 at 12:48
^ can we move on and get the thread back on topic, I think this conversation, if necessary and desired, could be held elsewhere. 
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