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moshkito 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16165 |
 Topic: Why listen to mediocre prog if you not a collectorPosted: March 27 2013 at 09:03 |
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Gosh ... now I have to look to see if I have any of these ... if "any", I probably would think that the stuff I have from Pete Brown, is down right close ... I think there was an interest earlier, but it was hard to believe, that a few songs that came off so well written, all of a sudden, came off like crap! I never understood that ... and when I heard his album with the keyboard player from MAN, my only thought was ... this guy is too ripped to know the difference anymore! But generally, that is the only one just about ... but I suppose that me having a few Mahler Symphonies, Turandot, Mary Queen of Scots, and a lot of Bernard Herrman will ahve many folks scratching their heads!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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AtomicCrimsonRush
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 02 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 14256 |
Posted: March 26 2013 at 07:30 |
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I collect - mediocre albums tend to surface now and then but its worth the effort to get to the masterpiece albums. I listen to the mediocre albums once in a while and enjoy them as they usually have some merit despite the non classic material.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31165 |
Posted: March 25 2013 at 21:13 |
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I always took fans in this context to mean more die-hard fans - take a hypothetical 2-star Genesis album - the Genesis uber-fans among us would be more interested than I, a casual acquaintance at best, and the 2 star rating can convey that as much as any rating can. Collectors in the context of a band is that certain band (most everyone has one) where you'll gobble up everything sound unheard no matter how dire others may consider it. Agree that everyone knows a 1-star means "this sucks" and there's really no need to qualify it further. |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: March 25 2013 at 20:39 |
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^^^ Maybe it reflects a certain kind of highly zealous, autograph-hunting fan who will buy everything the artist releases because of his identity alone. I am a fan of Scorpions but I didn't like Humanity and didn't have interest in learning what Sting in the Tail would be like. So I am a fan only to the extent I really like some of their work but not indiscriminately so of the band themselves.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: March 25 2013 at 12:56 |
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Ever since first finding this site many moons ago I've been non-plussed by the descriptions we give to 1 and 2 star ratings:
(not withstanding that the correct term is 'completists' not 'completionists')
Because who are we if not fans, and what are we if not collectors?
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What?
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16165 |
Posted: March 25 2013 at 12:16 |
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The MAGICK difference is that I don't listen to "prog", or "masterpieces", or "star", or "two star", or "mediocre" ... ... and this is one of the most important things when discussing and understanding the underlying current of the original folks that were here 40 years ago (with the music I mean), most of which are highly musically inclined and interested in DIFFERENT music, none of which had anything to do with collecting at all. In my case, it is all about "my own experience", and none of it has anything else to do with anyone else or anything else ... I may have gotten a little help from a few friends, notably Guy Guden at one time, but that's like saying I didn't have it before, when our house already had things like Alan Stivell and Aphrodite's Child and many Europeans and Latin Americans ... we were a house that was listening to a lot of music! I didn't need anyone to tell me that something was nice, or good ... and that is the main difference on my comment ... besides the fact that I doubt that collecting has a whole lot to do with listening ... for many people ... when you find that someone only wants this Blue Note label or another label, and they didn't care if Miles Davis played elsewhere ... which I have seen in my life! Other than a handful of folks here, most of us collect experiences, not records, or cd's! Otherwise, the meaning of the music itself ... dies! And very quickly! Edited by moshkito - March 25 2013 at 12:22 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Chozal
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 01 2011 Location: Melun, France Status: Offline Points: 187 |
Posted: March 25 2013 at 05:26 |
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Not to mention never listen to any masterpieces by Swans or John Cage :mrgreen:
Edited by Chozal - March 25 2013 at 05:26 |
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The Infinite Progability Drive, feeding you daily progressive/weird music for just a like <3
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Stool Man
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 30 2007 Location: Anti-Cool (anag Status: Offline Points: 2689 |
Posted: March 25 2013 at 05:12 |
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Another factor is that we all have a limited amount of time to listen to anything. Let's hypothetically say we can listen to ten thousand hours of music before we die (I'm old, yeah) - if we're limited to ten thousand hours, how much of that do we want to give over to repeat plays of the masterpieces we've already heard a few hundred times? one hundred plays of one hundred overplayed masterpieces would use up most of our allotted time, and we'll have only heard a hundred albums. Why not instead spread it about among 'mediocre' music or non-prog music or dedicate our listening time to new things - the best of 2014 is going to be amazing to listen to, whoever it'll be by, but not yet. And we won't know which of the future music is going to be masterpieces or mediocre or utter doo-doo until we actually listen to it.
Edited by Stool Man - March 25 2013 at 05:13 |
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rotten hound of the burnie crew
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desistindo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 02 2010 Status: Offline Points: 4321 |
Posted: March 24 2013 at 16:57 |
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Yeah, i know what you mean. Sometimes can be more "adventurous" if you pick the "obscure" way in some famous band's discography too.
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Who watches the watcher of the skies?
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Chozal
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 01 2011 Location: Melun, France Status: Offline Points: 187 |
Posted: March 24 2013 at 14:49 |
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Sometimes it's nice to listen to an (justly) underrated album just to hear something new. I personally am a rabid hunter for great tracks which will never be on any greatest hits or reunion tour setlist, hidden away in a minor LP, and they are everywhere.
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The Infinite Progability Drive, feeding you daily progressive/weird music for just a like <3
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20468 |
Posted: March 18 2013 at 16:17 |
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Originally posted by desistindo
I have a theory that only collectors listen to prog that arent a masterpiece (at least in personal taste perspective). If you can listen to a top star album, why would you listen a two star, for instance? Particularly speaking, I have many prog albums and I just linsten back to the tops. Does it occur with you too? --------------------------------
I kind of agree with what he's saying if you look at it from that perspective.
I have 'collected' many prog cd's over the years and some I rarely listen to because they are simply not as good as the others with traditionally higher ratings. That doesn't mean I don't pull them out and play them sometimes because one could always change their mind or 'hear' an lp differently the next time.
So I tend to do the same thing and play my favorites which usually are the higher ranked lp's.
And case in point I have a friend who is a hard core collector (thousands of cd's and lp's ..) of all things progressive rock...and he has told me there are many things he has only played once because they just aren't as good as the better rated ones.
Just saying......
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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Nogbad_The_Bad
Forum & Site Admin Group
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 20207 |
Posted: March 17 2013 at 17:56 |
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If I'm looking for an album by a band I don't know and I want an example of their work thats regarded as better than others then I'll look here and on Gnosis and on RYM for ratings and reviews.
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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HemispheresOfXanadu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2012 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4339 |
Posted: March 17 2013 at 15:39 |
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 ]) and if I really hate that album, I might try out another from another 'era' (if the band has multiple) to see if that suits me better.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29625 |
Posted: March 17 2013 at 15:16 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011 Location: Los Angeles, CA Status: Offline Points: 10970 |
Posted: March 17 2013 at 15:15 |
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Besides, I might find something else, more things to like about music. Ultimately, I will know that whether or not the music on that album clicks with me or not, I already have an idea of what record from the artist please most people (or please the people the most, which are not the same thing).
v
... I don't really find ratings to be only for entertainment purposes. Let's say I've read some reviews already, but I'm still at crossroads. I have nothing else to rely on but the math.Edited by Dayvenkirq - March 17 2013 at 15:20 |
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lucas
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 06 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 8138 |
Posted: March 17 2013 at 15:10 |
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an album can be a two-star album for someone, and a 5-star album for someone else. For example, my favourite Saga album is 'Behaviour', which is rather poorly rated in PA. |
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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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HemispheresOfXanadu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2012 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4339 |
Posted: March 17 2013 at 15:07 |
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^Oh, no. I do read ratings, certainly, but I try my best not to be swayed by them before I listen to an album, or only read them after I listen to an album to see if other people feel the same way.
(And I definitely don't think that anyone should feel forced to do stuff the way I do, so feel free to ignore my comments.  )Edited by HemispheresOfXanadu - March 17 2013 at 15:10 |
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011 Location: Los Angeles, CA Status: Offline Points: 10970 |
Posted: March 17 2013 at 14:46 |
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^ Well, what else can I hang on to? It's probably one of the best ideas to go by* if you refuse to read other people's reviews for whatever reason. It really depends on the people who lay down their opinion for you, though I doubt that a lot of the people who shape the ratings on sites like RateYourMusic.com are big-time idiots.
(Do keep in mind that I am a person who did put Obscured by Clouds in his top ten list.) * unless you want to find a record that would give what you look for.
Edited by Dayvenkirq - March 17 2013 at 14:54 |
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HemispheresOfXanadu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2012 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4339 |
Posted: March 17 2013 at 14:39 |
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HarbouringTheSoul
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 21 2010 Status: Offline Points: 1199 |
Posted: March 17 2013 at 14:30 |
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No, no, no, you got him entirely wrong. He's asking why you would listen to an album you think is mediocre when you could listen to one that you think is excellent. He's not forcing his taste on you whatsoever. I may not agree with desistindo myself, but at least have the courtesy of not putting words into his mouth. |
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Why listen to mediocre prog if you not a collector
Topic Options
Dean wrote:
Collectors/fans only
Poor. Only for completionists