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Simple statistics, misconceptions disproved.

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SquonkHunter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SquonkHunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Simple statistics, misconceptions disproved.
    Posted: March 15 2013 at 06:35
Originally posted by presdoug

When thinking of great US bands, i think of Blue Cheer and Bloodrock, competition in heavy music, and of course Grand Funk, who were already mentioned


Growing up in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area in the early 70s, Bloodrock was a huge local favorite. Always nice to see hometown boys make good. Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stool Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2013 at 11:41
Imaginary scenario:
 
How progressive rock might have developed without including the UK's bands (let's say, for example, that all the UK's psychedelic bands moved on to country rock by 1969, just like the US ones did)
 
1960s:
Miles Davis, Frank Zappa & Brian Wilson inspire a generation of US prog bands.
Daevid Allen, Konny Plank, & Christian Vander inspire a generation of European bands
 
1970s:
Jazz/Fusion rules in the US
Everyone else flies away to Planet Gong.
 
Which is pretty much what happened anyway! LOL
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2013 at 13:23
One more thing

Check how many bands claim to be influenced by Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull or ELP.

I calculate around 90%, if not more.

Now tell me, ¿How many bands claim to have been influenced by bands from other nations?

The percentage will be incredibly smaller


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tapfret Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2013 at 13:14
Originally posted by Snow Dog

It makes sense that The US have more. Much huger population equals more varieties of everything under the sun.


Huger? That better not be a jab at our weight.  Don't make us try to get up off this couch!


Edited by Tapfret - January 11 2013 at 13:15
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2013 at 12:48
Originally posted by Thandrus

Did a simple search in ProgArchives symphonic prog section to see which country had the most symphonic prog bands. See results below in the photo attached.

I was as amazed as some of you might get. The results proved wrong the most rooted prog misconception according to which UK was the center of symphonic prog. As you can see here, there are almost two times more symphonic prog bands in US than in UK. Germany has just as many symphonic prog bands as UK. Could what we've thought all this time be just a matter of exposure? Share your thoughts, please!

P.S. This doesn't even take into the account all the Italian prog bands, who were mostly of symphonic variety.

Let me see:

  1. The number of bands is not everything:
  2. The big six bands are
    1. King Crimson: Symphonic Debut (UK)
    2. Yes Symphonic (UK)
    3. Genesis Symphonic (UK)
    4. ELP: Symphonic (UK)
    5. Jethro Tull Folk (UK)
    6. Pink Floyd Psych/Space (UK)
  3. Most if the USA Symphopnic bands are post 70's, so in the 70's when the genre was young, UK wasc the center along with Italy, with the difference that most italian bands are one shot bands that released one album and vanished
  4. Most German bands are derivative in different degrees
  5. Italy has it's own genre.
So Yes, UK is the source and center of Symphonic.

Iván  

PD: Just in case I have heard at least one album of each and every band listed in Symphonic



Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 11 2013 at 12:51
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sumdeus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2012 at 03:55
I don't really care about how technically proficient musicians are at playing their instruments if I find their music completely boring. To me bands like The Doors were just as proficient in the context of their time and were much more inventive and revolutionary with their music.


Edited by Sumdeus - December 20 2012 at 03:56
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2012 at 02:47
Originally posted by progbethyname

Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by Sumdeus

I think there's no way anyone could seriously say Dream Theater are the greatest American band.

Agreed, career sales of 10 million, while being impressive, pale into insignificance compared to American bands like Boston, Journey, ZZ Top, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Green Day, Creed, Eagles, Guns & Roses, Bon Jovi etc. achieve that on a single album.


Fine, but do any of those bands come close to the sheer skill and musicianship of Dream Theater??
No freakin' way. Boston is pretty awesome, but not Dream Theater awesome.
You're the one who brought up statistics as a criteria Tongue
 
How do you measure skill and musicianship and is that really an indication of "the greatest band in America"?
 
I would imagine popularity and influence are far more important.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2012 at 01:50
Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by Sumdeus

I think there's no way anyone could seriously say Dream Theater are the greatest American band.

Agreed, career sales of 10 million, while being impressive, pale into insignificance compared to American bands like Boston, Journey, ZZ Top, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Green Day, Creed, Eagles, Guns & Roses, Bon Jovi etc. achieve that on a single album.


Fine, but do any of those bands come close to the sheer skill and musicianship of Dream Theater??
No freakin' way. Boston is pretty awesome, but not Dream Theater awesome.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2012 at 11:41
Originally posted by thellama73


Originally posted by rogerthat


Originally posted by thellama73

Zappa and Neil Young aren't bands (Neil Young is Canadian, anyway). I am not rally a fan of any of the others mentioned, although CC Revival are pretty good.


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Each to his own then.  The Doors were way more important to rock music than Aerosmith.  I thought you said greatest and not just the one that's your favourite?
My point was that I initially thought it absurd that Aerosmith could call themselves that, but I was surprised to have such difficulty coming up with American bands I like better. I think it says something about the quality of American rock music compared to Britain. When I think rock bands, I immediately think of The Rolling Stones, The Beatles, The Who, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Dire Straits, Queen, etc.America does have some great solo artists, though. Hendrix, Dylan, Alice Cooper, Springsteen, Zappa, Beefheart, Warren Zevon, etc. Maybe something to do with our individualistic nature.


Oh Dire Straights is great. Love the album BROTHERS IN ARMS. Mark Knopler is an incredible guitarist and a very accomplished one at that. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2012 at 08:08
Originally posted by presdoug

When thinking of great US bands, i think of Blue Cheer and Bloodrock, competition in heavy music, and of course Grand Funk, who were already mentioned
 
Shhhhhhhh!!!!!
 
Wink
 
We can not name half known and unknown American bands no one has ever heard ... specially if they came out of the Fillmore and Monterey days ...
 
Embarrassed
 
Of course, you're right ... but then ... even mentioning Al Kooper or Paul Butterfield, Sugar Loaf, Ides of March, (heaven forbid!) Mason Profit ... and many others, around here, sends shivers up the progressive spine! And I haven't started on the SF scene, which was bigger than the midwest scene ... but I could add Sons of Champlin!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote thellama73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2012 at 09:17
Originally posted by Snow Dog

Didn't anyone say Blue Oyster Cult?


Ah, that is a good point. They are pretty great.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote HarbouringTheSoul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2012 at 05:38
Originally posted by progbethyname

Originally posted by HarbouringTheSoul


Originally posted by progbethyname

More people like simple music. That demographic won't change for at least as long as I am alive On this planet earth
So if I kill you...? Wink


Killing me won't change why pop sells so much more than prog.
I know you wish it was that simple, but it isn't. Also, let's be clear

I DON'T LIKE THIS FACT AT ALL! Wish it weren't true.

I don't actually care what sells how much, it was merely a very silly joke. I will happily continue to listen to and buy both 'pop' and 'prog' music, whatever that means.

Originally posted by Sumdeus

I think there's no way anyone could seriously say Dream Theater are the greatest American band.

I think there is, but there's no way I would ever agree. Not as long as there are such tremendous bands as the Doors, CSN and ZZ Top.


Edited by HarbouringTheSoul - December 17 2012 at 05:38
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2012 at 04:16
Didn't anyone say Blue Oyster Cult?
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2012 at 03:47
Originally posted by Sumdeus

I think there's no way anyone could seriously say Dream Theater are the greatest American band.
Agreed, career sales of 10 million, while being impressive, pale into insignificance compared to American bands like Boston, Journey, ZZ Top, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Green Day, Creed, Eagles, Guns & Roses, Bon Jovi etc. achieve that on a single album.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sumdeus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2012 at 03:17
I think there's no way anyone could seriously say Dream Theater are the greatest American band.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2012 at 00:38
Originally posted by progbethyname

Originally posted by octopus-4

Million albums? Beach Boys.


Not prog.

I see them as proto for their last albums. Unfortunately Kansas sold probably less than DT but I don't know the statistics. Effectively, thinking to top selling American prog there's not very much to mention.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2012 at 00:36
Originally posted by presdoug

When thinking of great US bands, i think of Blue Cheer and Bloodrock, competition in heavy music, and of course Grand Funk, who were already mentioned



Blue Cheer are one of the pioneers of the hard rock/metal genre itself!! I have a ton of respect for them.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2012 at 00:34
Originally posted by octopus-4

Million albums? Beach Boys.


Not prog.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2012 at 00:33
Originally posted by HarbouringTheSoul


Originally posted by progbethyname

More people like simple music. That demographic won't change for at least as long as I am alive On this planet earth
So if I kill you...? Wink


Killing me won't change why pop sells so much more than prog.
I know you wish it was that simple, but it isn't. Also, let's be clear

I DON'T LIKE THIS FACT AT ALL! Wish it weren't true.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2012 at 00:31
Million albums? Beach Boys.
Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
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