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Is Robert Fripp Overrated?

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ProgMetaller2112 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ProgMetaller2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is Robert Fripp Overrated?
    Posted: Yesterday at 17:30
Originally posted by O666

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112

Originally posted by O666

Rating RF?! Underrate maybe but overrate..... I dont understand some of members. I saw strange posts these days in PA. One guy said "I hate Yes" and other guy write "Genesis hit me" (in positive attitude) and now "Robert Fripp is overrated". I think some guys come in wrong address!! Maybe some of you dont like Progressive music. Maybe some guys try to show themselves "Different Guys". Who knows.


My original post said. Is Robert Fripp overrated? Not Robert  Fripp is overrated. Get your facts straight, dude!

You answer your question by this question! Your opinion is very clear and I dont want to explain your opinion for you!! You talked about your anger very clear. Please DUDE! you must get your facts straight not me. Its very easy to say "I hate X" or "I dont like Y" without facts!! I think you get your answer from other guys and I dont want to waste your and my and others time.Wink
 
The only reason why I said what I said  that was because you clearly forgot to read the thread Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 16:10
I assume the original question means overrated in general since it does not refer specifically to his guitar playing, band works,  or his solo albums.
I think we all tend to overrate our favorite musical heroes...just a little.
 
Smile
 
Et In Arcadia Ego
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 15:28
Originally posted by M27Barney

If Fripp is God - I want to know which one - there are such a lot to choose from....well he's sitting down a lot so that possibly makes him like those Indian gods as they always seem to be sitting down.....
I think it's a bit small-minded to liken Mr Fripp to an imaginary and lets face it - fairly powerless personification....A true Fripp fan would liken him to a more potent force like an Active volcano twiddling with a Gibson or summat like that....
How dare you put down my exalted god Amon Ra. May many black sphinxes cross your path and cause your bandages to unravel cursed one.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 15:22
If Fripp is God - I want to know which one - there are such a lot to choose from....well he's sitting down a lot so that possibly makes him like those Indian gods as they always seem to be sitting down.....
I think it's a bit small-minded to liken Mr Fripp to an imaginary and lets face it - fairly powerless personification....A true Fripp fan would liken him to a more potent force like an Active volcano twiddling with a Gibson or summat like that....
Play me my song.....Here it comes again.......
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 12:44
Originally posted by LSDisease

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

You've read the part where I mentioned the chemistry of speed, technique, and awkward fingerplay, right? If you play a note really fast, things don't get much more difficult. Speed alone doesn't add to the difficulty. We are talking playing whole tones here.
that's obvious I wasn't talking about a single note, I was talking  about the composition. Fripp can play really fast but his articulation is rather poor while doing it. That's the point from the very beginning of this conversation.
I just brought the single note as an example, to make a point that speed alone doesn't make the execution much more complicated. As for poor articulation, I still don't hear it.

You've made a point in the beginning of the conversation, but as the conversation progressed, you've made more that I disagreed with.
Originally posted by LSDisease

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

I think it's "said" (as in "mentioned"), not "set", but I may be wrong, though it's that change of words that changes the meaning of the sentence.

I believe Bill mentioned this kind of philosophy when it comes to improvisation. The Crims weren't all about improvisation. Nothing is said when you improvise. You are just supposed to know what notes to hit, what chord is to be played next, etc.
you decide if it's set or said (from 1:18)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-f0P7-fxUQ
Both make sense. Can we agree on that at least?
Originally posted by LSDisease

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

You are right, you don't. Here by complexity I mean something opposite to simplicity. It's easy to comply with an already given conventional format, but to write something creative form-wise requires a direction and an imagination. If you deviate from something like AABB or AABA, if you write something like ABABCDE, then you are making your piece more complicated in form.
That's obvious, but (1) you can write a song based on simple riffs and chords but with many ideas (different riffs) in it, and (2) you can write a little piece with many insane licks that create its complexity.

1) That sounds like a rather vague idea. The complexity of something in a piece depends on what those chords and what those different riffs are like. I was actually speaking of inclusion of different sections that make the format of "Fracture" more complicated.

2) That's another way to achieve complexity.


Edited by Dayvenkirq - Yesterday at 21:56
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Post Options Post Options   Quote O666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 11:02
Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112

Originally posted by O666

Rating RF?! Underrate maybe but overrate..... I dont understand some of members. I saw strange posts these days in PA. One guy said "I hate Yes" and other guy write "Genesis hit me" (in positive attitude) and now "Robert Fripp is overrated". I think some guys come in wrong address!! Maybe some of you dont like Progressive music. Maybe some guys try to show themselves "Different Guys". Who knows.


My original post said. Is Robert Fripp overrated? Not Robert  Fripp is overrated. Get your facts straight, dude!

You answer your question by this question! Your opinion is very clear and I dont want to explain your opinion for you!! You talked about your anger very clear. Please DUDE! you must get your facts straight not me. Its very easy to say "I hate X" or "I dont like Y" without facts!! I think you get your answer from other guys and I dont want to waste your and my and others time.Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LSDisease Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 07:29
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

You've read the part where I mentioned the chemistry of speed, technique, and awkward fingerplay, right? If you play a note really fast, things don't get much more difficult. Speed alone doesn't add to the difficulty. We are talking playing whole tones here.


that's obvious I wasn't talking about a single note, I was talking  about the composition. Fripp can play really fast but his articulation is rather poor while doing it. That's the point from the very beginning of this conversation.

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

I think it's "said" (as in "mentioned"), not "set", but I may be wrong, though it's that change of words that changes the meaning of the sentence.

I believe Bill mentioned this kind of philosophy when it comes to improvisation. The Crims weren't all about improvisation. Nothing is said when you improvise. You are just supposed to know what notes to hit, what chord is to be played next, etc.


you decide if it's set or said (from 1:18)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-f0P7-fxUQ

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

You are right, you don't. Here by complexity I mean something opposite to simplicity. It's easy to comply with an already given conventional format, but to write something creative form-wise requires a direction and an imagination. If you deviate from something like AABB or AABA, if you write something like ABABCDE, then you are making your piece more complicated in form.


that's obvious, but you can write a song based on simple riffs and chords but with many ideas (different riffs) in it, and you can write a little piece with many insane licks that create its complexity.
"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ProgMetaller2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 00:53
Originally posted by O666

Rating RF?! Underrate maybe but overrate..... I dont understand some of members. I saw strange posts these days in PA. One guy said "I hate Yes" and other guy write "Genesis hit me" (in positive attitude) and now "Robert Fripp is overrated". I think some guys come in wrong address!! Maybe some of you dont like Progressive music. Maybe some guys try to show themselves "Different Guys". Who knows.


My original post said. Is Robert Fripp overrated? Not Robert  Fripp is overrated. Get your facts straight, dude!
“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four

"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ProgMetaller2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 00:48
I hate when people call Fripp "God" because he is not "God". He is creative and that's that
“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four

"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart

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Post Options Post Options   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 00:45
Originally posted by ExittheLemming

Originally posted by richardh

Originally posted by ExittheLemming

Originally posted by richardh

Trouble is the sitting down thing becomes a statement so it still plays into an image and helping sell records. I'm not sure that he is viewed with any more suspicion than the many individuals that are in rock bands who are generally not always the 'nicest' people.  Jolly good wheeze to be able to sit down on the job and make it look like some high integrity.IMO


How is a highly accomplished rock guitarist who sits down to play at a live concert 'playing into an image and helping sell records? The foregoing is the antithesis of Rawk aesthetics: Jumping around, showing off, pulling faces and maybe trashing yer gear is de rigueur for the genre. To paraphrase another hippy (Bill Hicks): are you saying Bob was cunningly playing the sexy but sedentary axe hero dollar?Wink

I am deeply cynical about these things. You are painting some picture of some guy who puts music entirely first and doesn't care about projecting any sort of image. Sitting down is basically saying 'I am a virtuoso' is it not?


Nope. I'm sitting down right now and I'm not any sort of virtuoso.Confused

as long as you are not standing up and being a rock star then that's fineThumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2014 at 16:08
^Perhaps if you played the spoons?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2014 at 16:04
Originally posted by richardh

Originally posted by ExittheLemming

Originally posted by richardh

Trouble is the sitting down thing becomes a statement so it still plays into an image and helping sell records. I'm not sure that he is viewed with any more suspicion than the many individuals that are in rock bands who are generally not always the 'nicest' people.  Jolly good wheeze to be able to sit down on the job and make it look like some high integrity.IMO


How is a highly accomplished rock guitarist who sits down to play at a live concert 'playing into an image and helping sell records? The foregoing is the antithesis of Rawk aesthetics: Jumping around, showing off, pulling faces and maybe trashing yer gear is de rigueur for the genre. To paraphrase another hippy (Bill Hicks): are you saying Bob was cunningly playing the sexy but sedentary axe hero dollar?Wink

I am deeply cynical about these things. You are painting some picture of some guy who puts music entirely first and doesn't care about projecting any sort of image. Sitting down is basically saying 'I am a virtuoso' is it not?


Nope. I'm sitting down right now and I'm not any sort of virtuoso.Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2014 at 15:43
Originally posted by The Doctor

Originally posted by JJLehto



Talent wise? Yes
As a musician? Well...I guess that is up for personal debate, KC is still a top 20 band for me, even as my tastes have changed and found so many more bands over time, and they have one of stronger discogs in my book, so he's pretty good as a musician/composer I say!
I'll grant, when you are made out to be god by default you're probably a bit overrated, and I don't think he's the best but I love KC and think Fripp is pretty dope. 
Many great points have been made already so no need to add on to why he's pretty dope IMO




Comparing Fripp to god is overrating god.   

Whoa! Where did that lightning come from?   


Edited by SteveG - July 29 2014 at 15:43
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Doctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2014 at 15:40
Originally posted by JJLehto



Talent wise? Yes
As a musician? Well...I guess that is up for personal debate, KC is still a top 20 band for me, even as my tastes have changed and found so many more bands over time, and they have one of stronger discogs in my book, so he's pretty good as a musician/composer I say!
I'll grant, when you are made out to be god by default you're probably a bit overrated, and I don't think he's the best but I love KC and think Fripp is pretty dope. 
Many great points have been made already so no need to add on to why he's pretty dope IMO




Comparing Fripp to god is overrating god.   

Whoa! Where did that lightning come from?   
I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2014 at 15:35
^ None of your posts serve as counter-arguments to what I've just said.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - July 29 2014 at 17:28
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2014 at 15:33
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq


^ Constructs never make an argument easier. They are just that - figments of our perception. And there is no need to put me down for trying to get everyone to agree on some definitions, because it is usually the lack of understanding of some words that makes us all sound like we are not speaking the same language, which leads to more confusion as a discussion progresses (or regresses ) or remains stagnant.
Refer to my previous post.

Edited by SteveG - July 29 2014 at 15:34
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2014 at 15:31
^ Constructs never make an argument easier. They are just that - figments of our perception. And there is no need to put me down for trying to get everyone to agree on some definitions, because it is usually the lack of understanding of some words that makes us all sound like we are not speaking the same language, which leads to more confusion as a discussion progresses (or regresses ) or remains stagnant.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - July 29 2014 at 15:32
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2014 at 15:28
^Fair enough, the constructs were made to make the argument easier if you take in the argument in the spirit of which it was intended (not serious). If you want to stay in a world of semantics and play English instructor instead of simplifying long running reoccurring go nowhere arguments, you are free to do so.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2014 at 15:19
Originally posted by SteveG

What makes a guitarist 'rated' to people to start with? I'm losing the theme of many of these discussions as members seem to have a preset idea of what an 'overrated' guitarist should be, be it a speed player or slower more complex player (hint) or perhaps someone more melodic that relies more heavily on the techniques that he mastered and avoids those he hasn't and so on. Whatever you perceive to be a 'rated' (very good) guitarist with something special in your eyes makes him 'overrated' (great). Perhaps it's time to retire this word 'overrated' and opt for another superlative. Forum philosophers, do have any suggestions?
What is "rated" in the context of these discussions? That's what confuses me in your application of the word. "Rated" to me sounds like you've given a guitarist this-many stars. "Overrated" and "underrated" aren't exactly about stars. Pick up a dictionary.

un·der·rate
ˌəndə(r)ˈrāt/
past tense: underrated; past participle: underrated
  1. underestimate the extent, value, or importance of (someone or something).
    "a very underrated film"
    synonyms:undervalueunderestimateunderappreciate, do an injustice to, sell short,play down, understateminimizediminishdowngradetrivialize More
    antonyms:exaggerate

o·ver·rate
ˌōvərˈrāt/
past tense: overrated; past participle: overrated
  1. have a higher opinion of (someone or something) than is deserved.
    "dismissing the work as pompous and overrated"
    synonyms:overestimateovervalue, think too much of, attach too much importance to,praise too highly More
    antonyms:underestimate


If I understand your post correctly, "rated" isn't the same as "very good". "Overrated" isn't the same as "great". Plus, I don't like it when people rely on mere constructs and use them in arguments.


Edited by Dayvenkirq - July 29 2014 at 15:20
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Post Options Post Options   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2014 at 14:35
Originally posted by ExittheLemming

Originally posted by richardh

Trouble is the sitting down thing becomes a statement so it still plays into an image and helping sell records. I'm not sure that he is viewed with any more suspicion than the many individuals that are in rock bands who are generally not always the 'nicest' people.  Jolly good wheeze to be able to sit down on the job and make it look like some high integrity.IMO


How is a highly accomplished rock guitarist who sits down to play at a live concert 'playing into an image and helping sell records? The foregoing is the antithesis of Rawk aesthetics: Jumping around, showing off, pulling faces and maybe trashing yer gear is de rigueur for the genre. To paraphrase another hippy (Bill Hicks): are you saying Bob was cunningly playing the sexy but sedentary axe hero dollar?Wink

I am deeply cynical about these things. You are painting some picture of some guy who puts music entirely first and doesn't care about projecting any sort of image. Sitting down is basically saying 'I am a virtuoso' is it not?
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