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seventhsojourn 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 11 2009
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 4006
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 Topic: Members Reviews
Posted: March 05 2010 at 03:43 |
First of all, my apologies if I have posted this thread in the wrong place. I checked the site guidelines and still wasn't sure... just to let everyone know I at least made the effort.
Ok, I'm a bit concerned by a couple of posts I've read over the past few days. Now, I'm probably worrying needlessly and it would be beautiful if I got some reassurance to that effect. I've only been a member of PA for 5 minutes, but that doesn't stop me caring about the site.
My first concern regards the possibility of PA doing away with the ordinary members' reviews privilege. Fellow ordinary members, please note my use of the word privilege. Collabs have worked hard to get the site to where it is, and newbies like myself have the opportunity to join their ranks. I actually feel like a bit of a prog parasite because I've used the site for so long without contributing. So my contribution is pretty insignificant, and it remains to be seen whether I stick around for the long haul or disappear off the radar after a couple of months. However while I'm here I can post reviews of prog albums from my collection. Where else can that happen? When I checked today there are currently 27,286 members, but you see the same few names logged in every day (maybe a core of 100 or so?). How about some credit for these people? If collabs are attacked, they are going to react. Whether the individual collab then acknowledges that their reaction was just that, ie a reaction to provocation, is irrelevant. Someone else might think that these things have gone too far and decide to take action, eg by doing away with ordinary members' reviews. You know, what actually concerns me more is that other ordinary members haven't responded to this suggestion. Maybe it's just me, I don't know... but I urge you to enter my delusion and give me some back-up. PA isn't a popularity contest, I'm not asking to be liked (although that would be nice). Neither is PA a democracy. If someone decides to do away with ordinary members' reviews, we don't get to vote on the subject. All I want is for people to say why our contribution is important. No attacks on collabs please, we need their support.
I don't know if there's any connection between this and my second concern, but I just get a bad feeling that there's something in the air. Another collab made reference to people saying PA was getting weak. Now I think this was light-hearted, but you know what they say about true words... My concern would be if the people talking about weakness were from within PA. Which brings me back to the reviews discussion above.
So that'll be me tagged as a paranoid... trust me, I get called worse on a daily basis  I'm quite happy to be called anything, so long as I can keep on reviewing.
Chris.
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DavetheSlave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 492
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Posted: March 05 2010 at 04:13 |
Chris, I think that the strength of PA is in its members and that the strength of any site is in the number of members it has. Personally I can't see members review ability being taken away. The quality of most of the reviews here are good and I think that the members have the ability to negate what could become the preferences of the few vs the reality of the many relating to reviews. For example - if this were my site and I were the only person able to review then every Extreme / Tech metal album would get a 1 star rating from me. The fact that I'm not the only person able to review means that that can never happen.
As it is the weighting of the reviews attached to the albums goes more so to the more snr members of the Site which is aa it should be.
I don't believe that members review ability will ever be taken away but then I aint the Boss so I can't know that.
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
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Posted: March 05 2010 at 05:22 |
 seventhsojourn wrote:
First of all, my apologies if I have posted this thread in the wrong place. I checked the site guidelines and still wasn't sure... just to let everyone know I at least made the effort.
Ok, I'm a bit concerned by a couple of posts I've read over the past few days. Now, I'm probably worrying needlessly and it would be beautiful if I got some reassurance to that effect. I've only been a member of PA for 5 minutes, but that doesn't stop me caring about the site.
My first concern regards the possibility of PA doing away with the ordinary members' reviews privilege. Fellow ordinary members, please note my use of the word privilege. Collabs have worked hard to get the site to where it is, and newbies like myself have the opportunity to join their ranks. I actually feel like a bit of a prog parasite because I've used the site for so long without contributing. So my contribution is pretty insignificant, and it remains to be seen whether I stick around for the long haul or disappear off the radar after a couple of months. However while I'm here I can post reviews of prog albums from my collection. Where else can that happen? When I checked today there are currently 27,286 members, but you see the same few names logged in every day (maybe a core of 100 or so?). How about some credit for these people? If collabs are attacked, they are going to react. Whether the individual collab then acknowledges that their reaction was just that, ie a reaction to provocation, is irrelevant. Someone else might think that these things have gone too far and decide to take action, eg by doing away with ordinary members' reviews. You know, what actually concerns me more is that other ordinary members haven't responded to this suggestion. Maybe it's just me, I don't know... but I urge you to enter my delusion and give me some back-up. PA isn't a popularity contest, I'm not asking to be liked (although that would be nice). Neither is PA a democracy. If someone decides to do away with ordinary members' reviews, we don't get to vote on the subject. All I want is for people to say why our contribution is important. No attacks on collabs please, we need their support.
I don't know if there's any connection between this and my second concern, but I just get a bad feeling that there's something in the air. Another collab made reference to people saying PA was getting weak. Now I think this was light-hearted, but you know what they say about true words... My concern would be if the people talking about weakness were from within PA. Which brings me back to the reviews discussion above.
So that'll be me tagged as a paranoid... trust me, I get called worse on a daily basis I'm quite happy to be called anything, so long as I can keep on reviewing.
Chris.
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Nah, yer fears are groundless matey. As a 'prog reviewer' my summed contribution to the site has been the addition of TWO albums and reviews for same. There are countless folks around here with less priviliged status than I who contribute a damn site more to PA.
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24392
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Posted: March 05 2010 at 06:02 |
Chris, I'm afraid you misinterpreted something I wrote in that infamous "Music Appreciation" thread. I am very much in favour of allowing ALL members to review any album they like (as long as they comply with the guidelines - the real ones, not only those related to the ratings), and my statement was only meant as an example of how other sites (VERY different from ours) work. You know, a couple of months ago we come under fire just because of our practice of allowing everyone to review the albums in our database, and I was the one who informed the others about that. So, I believe this was only a big misunderstanding - and to back it up, here's the original quote:
Raff wrote:
OK, back on topic now ...
I really don't understand what those people's beef with you might be,
Pablo. One star means 'poor, only for completionists', and you made it
clear in your review that it is exactly how you view the album. Anyway,
I believe that the one- and two-star definitions are very similar to
each other in meaning. I probably be demoted as well for giving one
star to Deep Purple's Who Do We Think We Are?, since there are
people who rated it much higher than I did. This is really crazy, as
well as faintly distasteful... At this point, we should do away with
the whole 'members' reviews' thing, and allow only a few select people
to review - since it seems that we are not free to rate an album as we
wish.
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Edited by Raff - March 05 2010 at 06:05
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009
Location: Guatemala
Status: Offline
Points: 6802
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Posted: March 05 2010 at 09:08 |
Raff, maybe you can help me with a doubt I have since some months ago... how is that the admin decide to include a regular member to a Collab or a special Collab or get him/her to a team subgenre member...??? I know maybe the method is indicated somewhere in the site but I'm lazy but I thought it was a priviledge that someone earned after some big amount of reviews or posting albums but I noticed that there are special members or collabs that have very few reviews... how is that works...???
And about the topic... if members are not aloud to post reviews, what is the sense of the site at the end...???
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Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66007
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Posted: March 05 2010 at 09:18 |
jampa17 wrote:
Raff, maybe you can help me with a doubt I have since some months ago... how is that the admin decide to include a regular member to a Collab or a special Collab or get him/her to a team subgenre member...??? I know maybe the method is indicated somewhere in the site but I'm lazy but I thought it was a priviledge that someone earned after some big amount of reviews or posting albums but I noticed that there are special members or collabs that have very few reviews... how is that works...???
And about the topic... if members are not aloud to post reviews, what is the sense of the site at the end...??? |
Essentially, either another member (usually a Collab) recommends another member for a promotion, or an admin recognizes that a member is significantly contributing to the site either via reviews or suggestions and promotes the member that way.
And I am pretty certain that all members will be allowed to continue to submit reviews as that is the foundation of this site, so it isn't anything that should be worried about.
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 03 2007
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 16913
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Posted: March 05 2010 at 09:41 |
Chris, don't worry, the state of PA is strong and the sky is not falling. Member reviews will always be an integral part, and new quality reviewers like yourself are the reason we'll remain the best prog site. PM me anytime if you have questions or concerns about things. 
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009
Location: Guatemala
Status: Offline
Points: 6802
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Posted: March 05 2010 at 09:58 |
rushfan4 wrote:
jampa17 wrote:
Raff, maybe you can help me with a doubt I have since some months ago... how is that the admin decide to include a regular member to a Collab or a special Collab or get him/her to a team subgenre member...??? I know maybe the method is indicated somewhere in the site but I'm lazy but I thought it was a priviledge that someone earned after some big amount of reviews or posting albums but I noticed that there are special members or collabs that have very few reviews... how is that works...???
And about the topic... if members are not aloud to post reviews, what is the sense of the site at the end...??? |
Essentially, either another member (usually a Collab) recommends another member for a promotion, or an admin recognizes that a member is significantly contributing to the site either via reviews or suggestions and promotes the member that way.
And I am pretty certain that all members will be allowed to continue to submit reviews as that is the foundation of this site, so it isn't anything that should be worried about. |
OK... thanks Scott... interesting... mmm... how you decide when someone is a Speciall Collab or a VIP member and all that...??? I'm curious...
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Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: March 05 2010 at 10:30 |
Just to emphasise what has been said here in response to the original post. No plans for any material changes to the site, it's business as usual! 
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66007
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Posted: March 05 2010 at 10:32 |
jampa17 wrote:
rushfan4 wrote:
jampa17 wrote:
Raff, maybe you can help me with a doubt I have since some months ago... how is that the admin decide to include a regular member to a Collab or a special Collab or get him/her to a team subgenre member...??? I know maybe the method is indicated somewhere in the site but I'm lazy but I thought it was a priviledge that someone earned after some big amount of reviews or posting albums but I noticed that there are special members or collabs that have very few reviews... how is that works...???
And about the topic... if members are not aloud to post reviews, what is the sense of the site at the end...??? |
Essentially, either another member (usually a Collab) recommends another member for a promotion, or an admin recognizes that a member is significantly contributing to the site either via reviews or suggestions and promotes the member that way.
And I am pretty certain that all members will be allowed to continue to submit reviews as that is the foundation of this site, so it isn't anything that should be worried about. |
OK... thanks Scott... interesting... mmm... how you decide when someone is a Speciall Collab or a VIP member and all that...??? I'm curious... |
Well. First step is that the member must learn to realize that whether or not he likes Dream Theater that they are not the be all, end all of progressive rock or progressive metal. Once that is accomplished it might be smooth sailing.  
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UMUR
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 3011
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Posted: March 05 2010 at 12:42 |
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The reviews are the foundation of the site wether they be by collaborators or members without collaborator priviliges ( and responsebilities). I know the opportunity to post reviews from day one was the reason why I found PA so appealing when I first started coming here. I´m sure that will always be the philosophy of PA and the reason why the site has so many members. All 27.000 members might not be active but I´m sure the number is substantial.
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toroddfuglesteg
Forum Senior Member
Retired
Joined: March 04 2008
Location: Retirement Home
Status: Offline
Points: 3658
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Posted: March 05 2010 at 12:43 |
Frankly, I do not care if I am declared a Groupie or a Senior Member....... or the Community Idiot.
I am doing reviews for two reasons: 1. As personal notes for my own housekeeping. We are all getting old one day. These reviews will remind us all, where we are sitting in our rocking chairs and being fed tea through a straw, how this and that LP/CD sound like. So by accessing your own account on PA, with all the reviews, you can make an informed request to the nurse to put on this and that album because I like that album better than this and that album. Allowing us (very mortal) normal members to put in our own reviews is an act of mercy towards the forthcoming senior citizens community. 2. To inform others about the contents of this album. Goes without saying.......... I also do interviews to preserve an important part of the prog rock history which will forever be lost when the interview objects dies. I am making personal copies of the interviews and storing them in a safe place for the benefit of future generations.
Edited by toroddfuglesteg - March 05 2010 at 12:45
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Rivertree
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Band Submissions
Joined: March 22 2006
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 17584
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Posted: March 05 2010 at 13:26 |
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as others already pointed out ... just the members reviews feature makes this site so attractive (brought me in here when I started with error reports and rather simple reviews). And it steadily provides 'fresh blood' ... a lot of new input. A trademark which should note be questioned ...
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009
Location: Guatemala
Status: Offline
Points: 6802
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Posted: March 05 2010 at 14:19 |
rushfan4 wrote:
jampa17 wrote:
rushfan4 wrote:
jampa17 wrote:
Raff, maybe you can help me with a doubt I have since some months ago... how is that the admin decide to include a regular member to a Collab or a special Collab or get him/her to a team subgenre member...??? I know maybe the method is indicated somewhere in the site but I'm lazy but I thought it was a priviledge that someone earned after some big amount of reviews or posting albums but I noticed that there are special members or collabs that have very few reviews... how is that works...???
And about the topic... if members are not aloud to post reviews, what is the sense of the site at the end...??? |
Essentially, either another member (usually a Collab) recommends another member for a promotion, or an admin recognizes that a member is significantly contributing to the site either via reviews or suggestions and promotes the member that way.
And I am pretty certain that all members will be allowed to continue to submit reviews as that is the foundation of this site, so it isn't anything that should be worried about. |
OK... thanks Scott... interesting... mmm... how you decide when someone is a Speciall Collab or a VIP member and all that...??? I'm curious... |
Well. First step is that the member must learn to realize that whether or not he likes Dream Theater that they are not the be all, end all of progressive rock or progressive metal. Once that is accomplished it might be smooth sailing. |
I think that response has my name all writen on it... well, if a discussion takes a dangerous direction I have always apologyze if something I said do offense or attack someone... Is not my goal to be fighting and discussing with anyone... but you Scott are right with me when people start bashing DT right...???
Well... now tell me... how do you define a special collab, or a regular collab or a VIP member and all that... I'm learning a lot here...
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Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24392
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Posted: March 05 2010 at 14:26 |
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Juan, VIP members are long-standing members of the site (some of them joined way before I did, and I have been here almost 5 years), who do not have the time or inclination to become Collaborators. Regular Collabs and SCs, on the other hand, are promoted by the Admins, generally after a request from another SC, because they have shown the right attitude and interest to work on behalf of the site.
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Rivertree
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Band Submissions
Joined: March 22 2006
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 17584
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Posted: March 05 2010 at 14:29 |
... just Very Important Prog lovers 
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009
Location: Guatemala
Status: Offline
Points: 6802
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Posted: March 05 2010 at 15:02 |
Raff wrote:
Juan, VIP members are long-standing members of the site (some of them joined way before I did, and I have been here almost 5 years), who do not have the time or inclination to become Collaborators. Regular Collabs and SCs, on the other hand, are promoted by the Admins, generally after a request from another SC, because they have shown the right attitude and interest to work on behalf of the site. |
Thanks Raff... now you have lift away all the shadows I have in this site... very interesting procedure and it's great, ...
Now, you are telling me Vompatti has spend more than five years here all day? my God... those are really Prog heads... thanks...
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Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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progkidjoel
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 02 2009
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 19643
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Posted: March 05 2010 at 20:59 |
Easy Livin wrote:
Just to emphasise what has been said here in response to the original post. No plans for any material changes to the site, it's business as usual! |
Good to hear!  I am genuinely greatful for the opportunity to write reviews for this site - its a hobby which I really enjoy and it has also been incredibly helpful in my education over the past few years. By reviewing, I have an enjoyable opportunity to practice and increase my writing skills, and I've been finding it much easy to write assignments and participate in writing tasks at school since I've started writing. I also find that putting ideas down on paper comes much more fluidly and with less effort, something which I'm fairly certain I'll find incredibly useful over the last two years of my schooling. Apart from that, I just love PA and sharing my opinions on music through reviews 
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seventhsojourn
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 11 2009
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 4006
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Posted: March 06 2010 at 07:10 |
progkidjoel wrote:
Easy Livin wrote:
Just to emphasise what has been said here in response to the original post. No plans for any material changes to the site, it's business as usual! |
Good to hear!
I am genuinely greatful for the opportunity to write reviews for this site - its a hobby which I really enjoy and it has also been incredibly helpful in my education over the past few years. By reviewing, I have an enjoyable opportunity to practice and increase my writing skills, and I've been finding it much easy to write assignments and participate in writing tasks at school since I've started writing. I also find that putting ideas down on paper comes much more fluidly and with less effort, something which I'm fairly certain I'll find incredibly useful over the last two years of my schooling.
Apart from that, I just love PA and sharing my opinions on music through reviews |
Thanks Easy (and everyone else who posted), that's just what i wanted to read. I'm a happy man!!
Just want to also endorse Joel's sentiment... I love this site.
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