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Topic ClosedDo PA proggers have the right prog balance?
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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2012 at 00:05
Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

I'm back Cool
I think alot of proggers in here dont have a real sense for melody. They seem to get excited over albums which lack melody and are filled with experimenting or heavy riffing or they get excited over music which is way over done. You need the composer to go with the musicianship. There's a number albums which clearly require some genius in the compositions which are ignored in here for much blander albums which may have a heavy riff or a trippy moment here and there. Certain albums which are considered a bands prog triumph just seem to a bit of a snooze when it comes to composition. While some albums are just Over Progged. They become a bit silly. I tend to think fusion is way overdone. Mahavishnu is a quite annoying. So is Brand x. Violin should be played in a classical manner. Goodman is almost hillybilly when he plays Big smile


Have you checked the top 20 list:?

  1. Close To The Edge    MELODIC   
    Yes
  2. Thick As A Brick      MELODIC    
    Jethro Tull
  3. Selling England By The Pound       MELODIC    
    Genesis
  4. Wish You Were Here      MELODIC      
    Pink Floyd
  5. Foxtrot       MELODIC    
    Genesis
  6. In The Court Of The Crimson King   MELODIC (The most melodic KC album ever)
    King Crimson
  7. Dark Side Of The Moon    MELODIC    
    Pink Floyd
  8. Godbluff  COMPLEX 
    Van Der Graaf Generator
  9. Animals      MELODIC     
    Pink Floyd
  10. Red   COMPLEX AND  MELODIC (Listen Starless)
    King Crimson
  11. Per Un Amico       MELODIC      
    Premiata Forneria Marconi
  12. Fragile      MELODIC     
    Yes
  13. Nursery Cryme     MELODIC    
    Genesis
  14. Moving Pictures      MELODIC     
    Rush
  15. Pawn Hearts COMPLEX 
    Van Der Graaf Generator
  16. Hybris     MELODIC   
    Anglagard
  17. Larks' Tongues In Aspic  VERY COMPLEX
    King Crimson
  18. Io Sono Nato Libero     MELODIC     
    Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso
  19. The Silent Corner And The Empty Stage  NOT SO COMPLEX 
    Peter Hammill
  20. Darwin!      MELODIC     
    Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso
Lets see the results

1.- 15 Melodic albums hardly complex for Prog
2.- Only 2 albums that you may call extremely complex
3.- I extremely complex album
3.- Two albums not so melodic neither extremely complex

So...How does this leaves your theory? LOL

Progarchives preferences are

  • 75% of the top 20 albums are melodic
  • 10% Complex albums
  • 5% extremely complex
  • 10 % Neither complex or melodic
This proves that most people goes with the simpler but melodic albums on this site.

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - March 31 2012 at 01:12
            
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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2012 at 01:06
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

 
Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Violin should be played in a classical manner.


Any reason why? Or is this just one more of the doctor's decrees that we have lamentably failed to obey?

I have to agree with Rogerthat.

I'm a fan of Jean Luc Ponty, the guy is a genius, graduated from the Paris Conservatory with the Premiere Prix (Highest award) in two years (Entered at the age of 15 and graduated at the age of 17).

If you have listened at least his first 5 solo albums, you can't deny that he is a virtuoso violinist and a great composer.



Just in case

But he played in Mahavishnu making the most complex and frenetic violin sections...Because he plays in the way the music requires. (BTW: Mahavishnu's main composer is a guy called John Mc'Laughlin, one of the top 10 guitarists in the world)

[

Here with Paco de Lucía and Al Di'Meola

The day you can do 10% of what this guys do, then you can teach them how to play, before not.

You can say you dislike some music, I don't like many bands, but saying they don't know how to play and we don't know how to listen, is harsh to say the less.

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - March 31 2012 at 01:13
            
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Points: 2603 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2012 at 02:32
I would have said Yes and Tales is highly composed. I assume from this that the music has been written, rehearsed and recorded. Yes and Gensesi didn't really jam, they performed their works. Now a jam band that IMHO was very creative (but will like everyone have their detractors - I know I've plently of bootlegs)  Or T. Dream. Some music can be improvised, some expanded, some retain studio content.

Ritual has room and has been slighhtly jammed in concert - being the rhythm section's turn...

But where is the unmelodic bit in Echoes? One hopes that good old sweet dissonance (Thank you I.A. for that one) is not the problem. To me the only non-melodic music really is musiqute concrete of some FX. There's mre to melody than somerthing to whistle and hum. Like all of Western Civilisation by Henry Cow.

Not sure I have th right prog balance ( as this has never been defined) but I think i have the right musical balance.


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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2012 at 16:08
Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Violin should be played in a classical manner. Goodman is almost hillybilly when he plays Big smile

You might want to just stick to something other than prog, there is no reason not to play any instrument in any manner you want.


Edited by Slartibartfast - March 31 2012 at 16:09
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2012 at 16:20
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

I'm back Cool
I think alot of proggers in here dont have a real sense for melody. They seem to get excited over albums which lack melody and are filled with experimenting or heavy riffing or they get excited over music which is way over done. You need the composer to go with the musicianship. There's a number albums which clearly require some genius in the compositions which are ignored in here for much blander albums which may have a heavy riff or a trippy moment here and there. Certain albums which are considered a bands prog triumph just seem to a bit of a snooze when it comes to composition. While some albums are just Over Progged. They become a bit silly. I tend to think fusion is way overdone. Mahavishnu is a quite annoying. So is Brand x. Violin should be played in a classical manner. Goodman is almost hillybilly when he plays Big smile
Absolutely nobody cares what you think about anything.
I so wish this to be true. You and I don't care but the amount of replies suggest otherwise.


Edited by Snow Dog - March 31 2012 at 16:21
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Points: 4160 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2012 at 16:45
I think we let this thread go for too long. 
There be dragons
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2012 at 16:46
Originally posted by frippism frippism wrote:

I think we let this thread go for too long. 

Nachon

or should I write...

נכון

Can't remember how to spell it, did I miss an aleph, is it cof instead of caf?


Edited by Snow Dog - March 31 2012 at 16:54
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Points: 13338 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2012 at 16:49
Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

I'm back Cool
I think alot of proggers in here dont have a real sense for melody. They seem to get excited over albums which lack melody and are filled with experimenting or heavy riffing or they get excited over music which is way over done. You need the composer to go with the musicianship. There's a number albums which clearly require some genius in the compositions which are ignored in here for much blander albums which may have a heavy riff or a trippy moment here and there. Certain albums which are considered a bands prog triumph just seem to a bit of a snooze when it comes to composition. While some albums are just Over Progged.
 
Please give specific examples of which albums, in your brobdingnagianly contumelious opinion, are compositions of genius but are ignored, and which are blander albums but rate highly here. When you make rather arrogant statements like "alot of proggers in here dont have a real sense for melody", it makes me wonder if you have the slightest idea what you are talking about. Offering what you consider overrated and underrated will at least allow me the opportunity to better understand your pretensions.
 
Many albums. Here's one of many example
 
Look at the ratings of these 3 albums. Ball is definately the best imo
 
Iron butterfly-ball/in a gadda/metamorphisis
 
You made a sweeping statement regarding many posters on this forum, but then all you could offer is a limp "Many albums"? That is not acceptable. And then come up with  Iron Butterfly? Your basing your assessment on them? Seriously? 
 
If anything, the only reason for discussing Iron Butterlfy at all is the 20-some-minute-long "In-A-Gadda-Davida" and let it go at that. They are a footnote in a discussion regarding psychedelia and no more. All of their albums are extremely inconsistent and dreadful for the most part. But really, Iron Butterfly is marginal to prog at best.
 
And what exactly about Iron Butterfly is melodic? Do you even know what the definition of melodic is? I looked up "melodic" in the dictionary, and no where was Iron Butterfly synonymous with the word. Try again.
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Points: 4160 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2012 at 16:50
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by frippism frippism wrote:

I think we let this thread go for too long. 

Nachon

Hebrew hi five!
There be dragons
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2012 at 16:56
Originally posted by frippism frippism wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by frippism frippism wrote:

I think we let this thread go for too long. 

Nachon

Hebrew hi five!

*slap*LOL

You missed my edit where I wrote bit using Hebrew characters....or tried to at least.
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Points: 4160 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2012 at 17:06
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by frippism frippism wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by frippism frippism wrote:

I think we let this thread go for too long. 

Nachon

Hebrew hi five!

*slap*LOL

You missed my edit where I wrote bit using Hebrew characters....or tried to at least.

Hey you got it right! cof is only for "k" sounds, while "caf" can be both the hard "K" and the ח (the Jewish sounding "ch" just like in "Kneydalach" for any Hebrew noobs).

תמיד רציתי לכתוב פה בעברית טוב אז למה לא, במילא הנושא פה אידיוטי.


Edited by frippism - March 31 2012 at 17:06
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2012 at 17:13
Originally posted by frippism frippism wrote:

 
תמיד רציתי לכתוב פה בעברית טוב אז למה לא, במילא הנושא פה אידיוטי.

אני מסכים

חג פסח שמח 



Edited by Snow Dog - March 31 2012 at 17:15
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Points: 4160 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2012 at 22:55
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by frippism frippism wrote:

 
תמיד רציתי לכתוב פה בעברית טוב אז למה לא, במילא הנושא פה אידיוטי.

אני מסכים

חג פסח שמח 


גם לך!
There be dragons
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Points: 6632 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2012 at 01:46
? מה קורה פה
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Points: 28057 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2012 at 01:54
ITT: Google translate
My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!
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Points: 4160 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2012 at 02:01
Originally posted by sagichim sagichim wrote:

? מה קורה פה
זה נושא אידיוטי אז פשוט התחלנו לכתוב בעברית
There be dragons
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Points: 6632 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2012 at 02:18
בוא נמשיך עד שיעיפו אותנו
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Points: 4160 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2012 at 02:23
כן!! יאללה אנרכיה!!
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LOL
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2012 at 04:35
Better stop the Hebrew now guys.

?טוב

It is hell trying to find the letters on my keyboard and then work out how to spell stuff that I haven't spoken for ages.
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