GENESIS 1970 -75

No problems with compression, over-compensation, just pure clear full sound, and lots of details/alterations i have not heard before - "Supper's Ready" was always cited for less-than-average sound quality having been squashed on a single LP side, but here it is revealed in its full glory, the 5-channel layout used to its full advantage especially during "Willow Farm", its familiar little chirps and squeaks coming from everywhere! Nice to have included "Happy the Man" and "Twilight Alehouse" and looking forward to hearing the rest, but "Revelation" and "Genesis Live" should have been included

Full track listing......

Genesis: 1970-1975 CD DISC 1: TRESPASS: 1. Looking For Someone 2. White Mountain 3. Visions Of Angels 4. Stagnation 5. Dusk 6. Knife, The

Genesis: 1970-1975 Songs DISC 2: TRESPASS 5.1 AUDIO: 1. Looking For Someone 2. White Mountain 3. Visions Of Angels 4. Stagnation 5. Dusk 6. Knife, The 7. Video Interview With The Band (2007)

Genesis: 1970-1975 Album DISC 3: NURSERY CRYME: 1. Musical Box, The 2. For Absent Friends 3. Return Of The Giant Hogweed, The 4. Seven Stones 5. Harold The Barrel 6. Harlequin 7. Fountain Of Salmacis, The

Genesis: 1970-1975 CD DISC 4: NURSERY CRYME 5.1 AUDIO: 1. Musical Box, The 2. For Absent Friends 3. Return Of The Giant Hogweed, The 4. Seven Stones 5. Harold The Barrel 6. Harlequin 7. Fountain Of Salmacis, The

8. Interview With The Band (2007) Genesis: 1970-1975 Songs DISC 5: FOXTROT: 1. Watcher Of The Skies 2. Time Table 3. Get'Em Out By Friday 4. Can-Utility And The Coastliners 5. Horizon's 6. Supper's Ready

Genesis: 1970-1975 Album DISC 6: FOXTROT 5.1 AUDIO: 1. Watcher Of The Skies 2. Time Table 3. Get'Em Out By Friday 4. Can-Utility And The Coastliners 5. Horizon's 6. Supper's Ready 7. Interview With The Band (2007) 8. Belgium-Rock Of The 70's (1972) 9. Italy-Piper Club (1972)

Genesis: 1970-1975 CD DISC 7: SELLING ENGLAND BY THE POUND: 1. Dancing With The Moonlit Knight 2. I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe) 3. Firth Of Fifth 4. More Fool Me 5. Battle of Epping Forest, The 6. After The Ordeal 7. Cinema Show, The 8. Aisle Of Plenty

Genesis: 1970-1975 Songs DISC 8: SELLING ENGLAND BY THE POUND 5.1 AUDIO: 1. Dancing With The Moonlit Knight 2. I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe) 3. Firth Of Fifth 4. More Fool Me 5. Battle of Epping Forest, The 6. After The Ordeal 7. Cinema Show, The 8. Aisle Of Plenty 9. Interview With The Band (2007) 10. Shepperton Studios, Italian TV (1973) 11. Bataclan France, (1973)

Genesis: 1970-1975 Album DISC 9: THE LAMB LIES DOWN ON BROADWAY DISK 1: 1. Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, The 2. Fly On A Windshield 3. Broadway Melody of 4. Cuckoo Cocoon 5. In The Cage 6. Grand Parade of Lifeless Packaging, The 7. Back In N.Y.C. 8. Hairless Heart 9. Counting Out Time 10. Carpet Crawlers 11. Chamber Of 32 Doors, The

Genesis: 1970-1975 CD DISC 10: THE LAMB LIES DOWN ON BROADWAY DISK 2: 1. Lilywhite Lilth 2. Waiting Room, The 3. Anyway 4. Here Comes The Supernatural Anaesthetist 5. Lamia, The 6. Silent Sorrow In Empty Boats 7. Colony Of Supermen, The (The Arrival/A Visit To The Doktor/The Raven) 8. Ravine 9. Light Dies Down On Broadway, The 10. Riding The Scree 11. In The Rapids 12. It

Genesis: 1970-1975 Songs DISC 11: THE LAMB LIES DOWN ON BROADWAY 5.1 AUDIO: 1. Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, The 2. Fly On A Windshield 3. Broadway Melody of 4. Cuckoo Cocoon 5. In The Cage 6. Grand Parade of Lifeless Packaging, The 7. Back In N.Y.C. 8. Hairless Heart 9. Counting Out Time 10. Carpet Crawlers 11. Chamber Of 32 Doors, The 12. Lilywhite Lilth 13. Waiting Room, The 14. Anyway 15. Here Comes The Supernatural Anaesthetist 16. Lamia, The 17. Silent Sorrow In Empty Boats 18. Colony Of Supermen, The (The Arrival/A Visit To The Doktor/The Raven) 19. Ravine 20. Light Dies Down On Broadway, The 21. Riding The Scree 22. In The Rapids 23. It 24. Interview With The Band (2007) 25. Melody French TV (1974)

Genesis: 1970-1975 Album DISC 12: EXTRAS 1970-1975: 1. Happy The Man 2. Twilight Alehouse 3. Going Out To Get You [Demo] 4. Sheperd [BBC Nightride 1970] 5. Pacidy [BBC Nightride 1970] 6. Let Us Now Make Love [BBC Nightride 1970] 7. Provocation [Genesis Plays Jackson] 8. Frustration [Genesis Plays Jackson] 9. Manipulation [Genesis Plays Jackson] 10. Resignation [Genesis Plays Jackson]

Genesis: 1970-1975 CD DISC 13: EXTRAS 1970-1975 5.1 AUDIO: 1. Happy The Man 2. Twilight Alehouse 3. Going Out To Get You [Demo] 4. Sheperd [BBC Nightride 1970] 5. Pacidy [BBC Nightride 1970] 6. Let Us Now Make Love [BBC Nightride 1970] 7. Provocation [Genesis Plays Jackson] 8. Frustration [Genesis Plays Jackson] 9. Manipulation [Genesis Plays Jackson] 10. Resignation [Genesis Plays Jackson] 11. Interview With The Band (2007) 12. Box Set 1967-1975 (VH1 Special) 13. Watcher Of The Skies (Midnight Special 1973) 14. Musical Box, The (Midnight Special 1973)

As has been mentioned, this is a REMIXED and remastered box set of the 2nd through the 6th Genesis albums. Basically, the Gabriel years and the best of the Genesis prog rock years.

The should is fantastic. A lot of folks that remember the original vinyl release of these albums may be disappointed by this, because the remix makes them sound different even from the originals. The difference is not extreme, however, and I think everyone can enjoy this.

Trespass is for me the biggest difference. Having never heard the original, and only have the original CD release (no remasters) of this one, the difference in sound was pretty dramatic to my ears. In fact, the only remasters I have are the first ones of Nursery Cryme and Selling England. These sound the most similar to my ears, but even in these cases there are noticeable differences (like hearing Collins dual vocals with Gabriel far more clearly). In my case, this was well worth getting since I had only the two remasters. For someone that has all the remasters, however, it may STILL be worth getting as the remixing does make quite a difference in many areas. 12 string guitars are more audible and clearer in the sound stage, drums sound like drums and are far less boxy than previously. Vocal effects are stronger.

But on the whole, this is the Genesis albums we all know and love, but finally sounding decent. I have seen comments that they sound modern now, implying that is bad because the aura of the 70's recording techniques gave the albums a special charm. I agree with this to a certain extent, but I don't think the aura is gone. What gave Genesis that special feel, and sound, was the compositions and instrumentation. All that is still intact, sounding better than ever.

The bonus material is nice, though aside from the interviews, I had all of it in bootleg form previously. The one exception to this is the Jackson material, which I'd never heard before. This is fascinating stuff, hearing Trespass material in embryonic form, fused together with Nursery Cryme material in similar form. It really makes you appreciate just how big of an improvement Hackett and Collins brought to the band. Not necessarily worthy of repeated listens, but worth hearing none the less. The video performances are fantastic and for anyone who doesn't have them, this set is a no brainer. I already had them all, but did notice some cleaning up of both sound and video, particularly in the Belgian TV material. The interviews are pretty dry, but very interesting as well, with Collins' segments being the most entertaining.

This is a fantastic box set, and a great summing up of the best (IMO) period in Genesis' history. I'd consider it essential to the true Genesis fan, especially those of us who really only like the Prog era of the band.

I stand with jaw open as to how people can listen to Genesis in this fashion. I had hoped this box might be treated with a more audiophile approach after all of the complaints about the previous two, but clearly such was not to be the case.

I can only presume that some people have been listening to remastered CDs for so long now that they have lost complete touch with things like midrange, drums that don't sound like tin cans, and dynamics that haven't been sacrificed. I envy those who do not hear what all of this EQing and compression has done to this set. I truly do. But to me, right from the moment I put on Trespass, Mayhew's cymbals sounded like somebody hitting a can with a spoon right next to my head. Yeah, more clarity, but at what cost? The hi-hat on Trespass now sounds like pure tin. Drums don't sound like that no matter how loud they get. That's just massive EQ tweaking and compression gone wrong. Even Gabriel's voice is somewhat grating because of all of the EQ. The whole signal just pumps and sounds kind of sterile.

The EQing on these varies, and won't always be as bright as what I described above, but the compression remains pretty consistent, and is a sonic disaster for any but the fan who buys music he enjoys again and again and is content with hearing new detail as opposed to being concerned with the warmth and feel of the entire signal.

If one is so inclined to look at this stuff in a more scientific fashion to see what was done, you'll see that many peaks are just gone. I saw a comparison where the original 80s CD of Selling England was displayed next to this new mastering, and I kid you not, it was noted that on Cinema Show, the dynamics are about *half* of what they were. This is ridiculous.

It doesn't take a purist to find that these sound bizarre. Heck, I used to think people who said this type of sound makes you feel a bit weird or causes ear fatigue were New Age wackos, but I've come to understand that when music is squashed with compression like this it actually makes you feel a bit dizzy in the head just listening to it. How anyone could get through these entire albums without their ears feeling exhausted is something which simply eludes me.

Some people will look at the waveforms of these with software and think they've seen worse, but this is compression that was obviously done on individual tracks and in the mixing process and you'll really need to compare with early CD versions to see how much has been sacrificed in order to make these sound pumped up or modern or whatever the goal was here. Sure, when these were mastered, they cranked it up some more, but it's the whole thing being pummeled with compression in the *mixing* process that is obvious and creates this sound.

Now, if one wants the 5.1 mixes, I suppose this set might be interesting, but for stereo, original Charisma vinyl makes this stuff sound laughably bad. It is just unfathomable that anyone could have ever bothered to A/B these mixes with the originals at the same volume and think this could actually be pitched as an improvement. That is comical. To my ears, these should be called the Genesis demasters or demixes.

I guess Davis apparently learned his lesson from using no-noise to lessen hiss on the Definitive Editions, so thankfully that is one thing that is not evident. The breath is in the signals here, and I hear plenty of tape hiss, but the EQing and compression is not to be believed.

If you have no ability to play vinyl or generally prefer the CD medium, do some googling for something like Genesis best CD versions and you'll find that many Genesis freaks have been hunting down the old Virgin/Charisma CDs for Trespass, Nursery Cryme and Foxtrot. These may not be perfect sounding, but don't let the cheap packaging fool you. Sonically, those babies trounce this nonsense. For Selling England and The Lamb, the early Virgin/Charisma CDs are great but the Atlantic CD of Selling England and the Atco CD of Lamb are also the same mastering and equally superior to this approach. Not the case with the earlier stuff. There, you need the early Virgin/Charisma CDs with those stupid cropped covers. The Atlantics (or MCA for Trespass) aren't as good. Of course, even the no- noised and overly EQd Definitive Editions from 1994 are better than this, but real fans should do some research as many fans are out there trying to do comparisons and figure the Genesis catalog out on CD. The 80s CDs have compared most favorably but you need the right ones, because some of them were just garbage of a different kind. In recent comparisons, I have found that decent vinyl pressings of these albums crush any CD, but I kid you not, if you A/B some of those decent sounding 80s/early 90s pressings with this garbage and actually level match them so that they are the same volume, you'll see that this is ultimately just grating on the ears.

Ironically, I'd be glad to rebuy this music despite owning it in numerous formats, live versions, etc... but only if the original recordings were treated with *some* type of TLC and restraint. Not just put through a chain of tools and worked over like meat through a grinder. And I don't think it sounds better just because I am told or most people believe that technology has improved so much and blah blah blah. These mixes were works of art. They were intimate one minute and bombastic the next. Genesis was in your room and then blasting mellotron from the Moon all within a single piece of music. That feeling is gone. It has been disregarded in favor of mixes like Mama. I thought Mama was breathtaking, innovative and brilliant for its time, but I don't need to hear Can Utility and the Coastliners mixed to sound like Mama.

Metaphorically, maybe Banks thought his keyboard rig in the 80s sounded as organic and powerful as his rig in the 70s because he was adopting the technology of the time. But while that technology may have been of its time and accepted by most keyboardists as improved, in my view, it wasn't improved. In fact, I suspect that many would agree it wasn't nearly as good! Same thing here, folks. I'm sad to report this because this music means so much to me that I wanted this set to be different. Unfortunately, it's along the lines of the previous sets. Read all the glowing reviews you like, but at least try to find those that have some descriptions of tonality and actual comparisons. Those are perfectly valid as this is all subjective, but when reading fascinating insights like Nursery Cryme sounds better than I *remember* it sounding so buy this now and similar diatribes, just remember that those aren't actual comparisons. Instead, they are just reviews from people who, for whatever reason, want to believe that they have made a good investment or support anything the band does.

Hmmm, well...what to say? first of all perhaps I should fess-up, I'm not unbiased when it comes to Genesis...Gabriel Genesis that is...it took me 10 years to even listen to Trick of the Tail f'rinstance, my mistake! As a young chap I wandered into a gig in Sunny manchester England, oh way back in 1971..... It cost me 30p or 6 Shillings entrance fee, it was posted as a Charisma tour special, I walked inside with my good mate Bob, it wasn't full, even at that low price. I saw Audience...Genesis...and Van Der Graaf Generator all in the same night, one after the other and all for 30p........... I totally loved Genesis I saw them many times, even at Friars in Aylesbury. I watched them for very last time in Manchester at the Palace for the Lamb Lies Down on Broadway tour.... Although I never saw them play a 'Bad' gig, some were better than others ...but none ever poor. I also have to admit that although I was very quick, speedy even, to enfold the CD revolution ...way back in the 80's....I always prefered vinyl, there was something more tactile, more involving to me. I still love vinyl, and still have most of my vinyl, I most definately have ALL of my 1st press Genesis. So, after that lengthy preamble, as you might imagine, I bought the Vinyl 6LP box-set Re-Mixes. The vinyl is good and flat and thick and the covers are nicely made replicas of the original, you don't get any DVDs..MP3s...SACDs...books, pamphlets, memoirs or facile opinions of B-Celebs all you get are 6 Lp's.... They are FANTASTIC, they are superb, they are well worth the money...they just are... I have listened to all the records apart from Trespass, I can' t even give you an acceptable reason why I haven't heard it..it just hasn't happened yet... I played Lamb first...I played it all the way through..all four sides, it is so superior to the first that a comparison is like a broken pencil...pointless.... I auditioned Nursery next and quite honestly heard parts which had been lost on the original mix, I heard nothing at all that I didn't like..nothing at all. Fountain of Salmacis is/was mesmerising, I thought I would never hear music that bewitched me like the first time I heard Genesis...I have though ...admittedly it's still Genesis, but that matters not one jot.. Foxtrot...Supper's Ready..There finest 25minutes..probably..well guess what? It just got better. I could go on...but there is valuable Vinyl time being wasted here, Buy a decent Vinyl kit, it's not even expensive anymore, and listen to that Mellotron wail in the manner that it was meant to. I am quite taken aback as to how good this set sounds, it really is a bit of a masterpiece!

We've all heard the albums, we just want to hear them sonically enhanced with some nice extras.

Unfortunately, the main thing these mixes are missing is TLC. I don't think there was a fan of this music in the control room, and I'm including the contributing band members.

The earlier albums, "Trespass" and "Nursery Cryme" are tolerable, even enjoyable at times. There are some strange eq and compression choices, (this is the case thoughout the boxset and don't let anyone tell you differently), but I think the net increase in clarity and separation make for some good listening. Some parts that were not present on the originals simply prove distracting, not adding anything to the proceedings. "Fountain...", in particular, benefits most from its clear, crisp presentation.

"Foxtrot" is probably the album that would benefit most from some remixing. It's flat, indistinct production always seemed inferior to even the muddy John Anthony treatment, which actually seemed to fit the early Genesis songs. I have always preferred the songs from this album as they appear on "Genesis Live" and considered "Suppers Ready" a bloated, over-rated hodge-podge.This one's a wash, about as enjoyable then as now, just a little clearer.

Initially, "Selling England..." sounded disappointing. I think the problems are more with the 5.1 versions rather than the CD's. While compression/eq could be different, repeated listenings to the CD have proven fairly satisfying.

Then finally, the Lamb, possibly my number 1 desert island album, and the real reason I purchased this box set. Wow. A short list of camel-back straws:

1) Almost all the additional little overdubs that had been muted the first time around have come to rear their ugly heads. Many feel like improvisational attempts at something that never really get fully fleshed out, resulting in a net detrimental effect, satisfying neither on the curiosity nor aesthetic levels.This version of the album will really help you to appreciate John Burns' production ability, knowing when to not include something.

2) Phil Collins. In case anyone forgot, Phil was not the lead vocalist yet. With this record a decision seems to have been made to include every harmony, aside, onomatopoeia, whoop and yelp eliciting from Phil's mouth. "Counting Out Time" is rendered almost as a Phil solo vocal, reducing the verses to an out-of-synch cacophony. Don't get me wrong, I like Phil. But his vocal parts are mixed too up front.

3) Mixing. It feels like Pixar has been contracted to restore the Sistine Chapel. I'm not sure that you should use the same approach with Genesis from 1974 as you would Nine Inch Nails.You can hear the compression sucking at the music throughout. Gabriel's vocals are a compressed, brittle assault, especially apparent on the softer sections like "The Lamia". Use of echo takes the snap out of many sections, washing out the vocals on "NYC", the guitar bursts in "Counting Out Time". The acoustic guitar intro to "Hairless Heart" was so poignant in its simple statement of the melody, then being replaced by the robotic electric, now plays through in a non-imaginative Hackett solo kind of way. The snare snaps after the "gives me one hell of fright" in "Slippermen", what's up with that? Actually, I did get a fright, frightened I'd wasted my money.

There are some cool low-fi videos that are nice if you haven't seen them. They don't even bother to clean these up/enhance them. And the interviews: I have never seen anyone more embarassed by their previous work, unable to render one kind word in its defense. They all seem to wish this era of their lives could be forgotten and they could be remembered for the tripe that afforded them their fat bank accounts.

In conclusion, I don't want their negative insight into their music nor a re-imagining of how good it could have sounded if you found a totally unsympathetic technophile with a tin ear to mix it. If you already have these albums, those copies probably sound better than this and if you are thinking of buying this, you probably already have these albums.

The ultimate Prog starter kit

Well, it doesn't get much better than this. The most vital Genesis period, with Peter Gabriel, all in one place with updated sound and lots of extras. This box contains the 5 studio albums from Trespass to Lamb plus bonus DVD audio/video discs. As the music is reviewed under the individual albums this review simply discusses advantages of the box set.

Sound: Typically I'm not a box set fan and I rarely buy them, but this one was an exception I couldn't refuse. I wanted to hear the new mixes and see some of the extras and interviews. First, the sound issue. Most like the new mixes while some folks complain about revisionism and compression issues. I'm not an audiophile to any extreme degree, I'm just a thumbs-up or thumbs-down kinda guy. To me the new discs sound as good as the previous "definitive edition remasters" generation and I do hear some things that were buried in the mix before, which I consider a positive development. It's been so long since I've heard the vinyl but I can understand Jeff Carney's position about the lack of warmth and differences in the new mixes-though they are simply not enough to ruin this package for me. I like the sound for the most part, especially the gorgeous Trespass which sounds heavenly.

Packaging: The packaging is a mixed book. The outer box is small and efficient which is much appreciated. It fits well in a small shelf space and the door flips up so you don't have to remove the product to take some huge box top off. Four of the six titles come in jewel cases as they should. Sadly, the Lamb and the extras disc come in ridiculous "book" style sleeves so the discs have to slide in and out of VERY tight paper guaranteeing they will eventually be scratched if you use these sleeves. Very poor decision. Of course each album has a nicely adorned lyrics booklet. The extras album has a complete band history with lots of photos and notes.

Extras: The extras are plentiful. Each title comes with a CD and a separate DVD. The bonus disc is the dvd-audio version as well as extended video interview segments and/or bonus live performance video. The interviews were quite detailed and enjoyable, cutting back and forth between the various members giving their recollections about the album in question. Sometimes the differing opinions of Peter and Tony particularly were quite amusing. I also enjoyed hearing the opinions of the Steve and Ant who are not as often heard from. The extra material is generous and very fun even if the quality is not always perfect. Vintage live performances and television appearances, unreleased tracks, interviews, and a documentary will keep you in Genesis heaven for hours.

Should you spring for this? Comes down to this: If you're a new Genesis fan or you otherwise need to acquire updated versions of these important 5 titles, this is the way to do it and get lots of cool perks. But if you already own remastered, otherwise fine CD copies of these titles, I wouldn't personally spend the money unless you've got lots to burn.

And so I've reached the end of my one year long review streak leading up to the 700th review! Now that I've covered pretty much all of my progressive rock collection, there is only one release that deserves a little more attention than what it has gathered so far.

Let's face it, I'm a huge fan of Genesis and they will always remain one of my all time favorite bands. This alone makes a compilation box like Genesis 1970 -75 an essential part of my collection. This comes from a fan who already owns all these albums on vinyl, '90s CD remasters and, in some cases, even the unedited CD-versions of the vinyls. But having said that, I also consider this compilation to be an essential part of any progressive rock fans collection since it pretty much sums up everything that you need to know about the band called Genesis!

The five studio albums sound amazing on the new SACD's and brings out so much new detail in the performances on Trespass and Nursery Cryme. I also found a few new details on Foxtrot and Selling England By The Pound but those were few and far between. The whole talk about drums sounding like tin cans on Trespass, as the result of the new mix, is far from the truth since what I heard can only be regarded as the best possible version of that album that has been released to date. Note that I've already heard three different mixes of Trespass and Nursery Cryme before listening to the new ones!

Still, it's actually not the album mixes themselves that steal the show for me here. Instead, it's the vast amount of bonus material from the time that makes this compilation's hefty price tag sound quite affordable. Not only do we get almost all video live footage that has been circulating on the web ever since the '90s, but also a few new discoveries like the slide show from the Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, which can be experienced together with the music! I also love the attention to details that the artists have put into designing this package. On top of all this we also have the newly recorded interviews with all of the original band members where they talk extensively about this period of their career and their thoughts of it today.

There is no doubt in my mind that these five studio albums, alone, are worth the recognition of the highest honor from the entire progressive rock community. But the fact that this compilation actually gives its audience a complete package featuring almost everything anyone would ever want to experience of this amazing period in Genesis' career, makes Genesis 1970 -75 an essential collection with a plus on the side. Get it if you haven't already done so!

PS There is no need for song-by-song ratings here, is there?

This Box Set revisits Gabriel era Genesis of the early 70's when Genesis were at the forefront of the development of what we now call Progressive Music. Every genesis fan will already by now have a copy to add to their vinyl and remastered CD versions.

This set has it all. Updated mixes including 5.1 versions, bonus DVD material that includes interviews with the various band members (Ant, Steve, Peter, Mike, Phil and Tony), video of live performances (including several versions of Musical Box and Supper's Ready, although not of the best sound/video quality). The set does not include "From Genesis from Revelation".

The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway SCAD version also includes a set of the original slides that went with the stage production that you can watch whilst listening to the enhanced sound. In general, the discs all sound much better than before, in particular Trespass. Some will suggest that the vinyl or original CDs have better sound but I prefer the improved clarity and separation and I still have the other formats anyway!

There is also a bonus disc which includes some of the better non-album tracks that are also on the Archive - Volume 1: 1967-1975 (Happy the Man, Twilight, Going Out to Get You, Shepherd, Pacidy, Let Us Now Make Love) but the real extra is what is known as the Jackson Tapes. These are pieces that were recorded before Trespass to serve as backing music for a BBC TV programme about artist Mick Jackson and his painting.

These tracks are called Provocation, Frustration, Manipulation and Resignation. The tracks are at an early stage of development with only guide vocals. Parts of the tracks are recognisable in Fountain of Salmacis (Provocation), Anyway from The Lamb (Frustration), Musical Box (Manipulation)

Since each of the original discs are all 5 star, this box set adds an extra star for the bonus disc for a total of 6 stars.

ProgArchive Overall rating: 5 stars.

Absolutely essential for any Genesis Fan or if you are starting out.

If you already have the discs and are not a true believer then this could be considered as non-essential.

Mmmmmm... This is not exactly what I would expect. There are many improvements to the originals in terms of clarity and crispy sound. Also you would find lots of small or big details from the different instruments and voices that were hidden or simply muted at the original mixes. Very interesting for the fans. The "Jackson" tittles are also of great interest to good fans, as they show how some songs were written with Ant at the time they were at the McPhail's cottage in 1970. You can hear what the individual players do much better that ever... So, is this then a better or definitive version for all these classics? Mmmmmm... Genesis was a band with a very distinctive sound and approach than the other big names in 70's british progressive. They were not virtuous mega-stars trying to to put their playing in front of the others. They were a band: Genesis. They made an orchestral sound effectively using layered sounds. They sounded and wanted to sound all together, like one piece band. The sound of the recordings could be dark, but that was their trademark. So, what to expect when someone gots the chance to use the old tapes and the newest technology to make a new mix and remaster? I would say: To improve the clarity and dynamism of the individual instruments. Then put them all together again and make the mix sound exactly the same as the original one except for improved sound quality. First thing requided for this task: It must be done by someone with the needed technical skills. But even more important: It must be made by someome who loves this music more than his life. This is why these mixes fail. I'll try to explain how do I hear it. Let's put in front every 80's mega-star Phil Collins thing we can find in the mix. + Let's make sound the drums like it wasn't prog-rock from the 70's + Let's made listeners say Ohhhh with over Hi- EQed acoustic guitars put in front at both sides of the stereo + ... Don't get me wrong, some things sound fantastic. The whole Trespass, The Fountain of Salmancis and others are wide crystal clear. But do they replace the originals? I would say NO. A big part of the original atmosphere is lost. A big part of the Genesis trademark sound is lost. A big part of the magic of the dynamics is lost. If you EQ the drums without mid-range in front of the mix it is not the Collins of the 70's, all the warmth is lost. Many times Steve used to play like he wanted to hide behind the others. Let him sound like he wanted to sound. If Anthony or Mike would have liked their guitar arrangements sound that clear and crispy in front of the music they would have said it. That was not their character. They were beautiful arrangements to the overall sound instead. If you decide to put in the mix an arrangement that was muted you have to think that maybe they muted it because it wasn't good enough. If you take out of the organ EQ most of the mid-range making it sound very clear but hollow and thin, then what becomes to the Gabriel era Genesis sound? It's not the Gabriel era Genesis sound anymore. And so on. At times I have the feeling that I'm listening to a good tribute band. It is the same but it's not the same. You know what I mean.

It was my 13th birthday, I was at my Grandma's house. After eating our Thanksgiving Dinner I opened my presents. I got gift cards and cash from my aunt and uncle as well as both pairs of grandparents. From my Mom and Dad, financially assisted by my grandfather (not in any of the previously mentioned pairs), were three gifts. I had hunches to what each of them were. I wasn't right about two of them, although I was not disappointed by my wrong guesses as the presents were still as spectacular. But the one I did get right was this, the Genesis 1970-1975, 13 disc boxed set. The precious contents of the set are contained in a green, 6" by 6" by 6" cube. Written on each side, in "We Can't Dance" font, is the word "genesis". Each "genesis" is made out of album artwork from the albums contained. There's a small silk strip to help pull up the panel on the front of the box, which can then be slid into a small pocket inside. Inside there are six CD cases. "Trespass", "Nursery Cryme", "Foxtrot" and "Selling England by the Pound" are in Jewel cases, "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" and the Bonus Disc are in digipacks. Each album contains a booklet with lyrics, two discs (or three for "The Lamb"), a CD containing new Stereo mixes, and a DVD, with 5.1 Surround Sound Mixes, interviews with the band about each album (with the Bonus Disc DVD interview about the 5.1 mixes), and on "Foxtrot", "Selling England by the Pound", "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" and the Bonus Disc have live performances. The Bonus Disc DVD also has a VH1 special about the Gabriel era made when the 1967-1975 Archive Boxed set was released. The Bonus Disc is made up of non-album tracks, demos, and four tracks made for an unproduced documentary about a painter named Micheal Jackson. These tracks include lots of bits that would be used in later albums. Each album is masterfully remastered, making the albums come to life. Sadly, I don't have a surround sound player, so I'm not aware of how they sound, but I've read that they're amazing. Genesis have been one of my favorite bands for years, creating some of the best music ever. Each of these albums are fantastic, some of my favorites of all time. It's a must have for every Genesis fan.

This set takes us from the earliest Genesis (barring the "From Genesis to Revelation" album) to the time of Peter's leaving of the group (1975) and spans the albums Trespass, Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, Selling England By The Pound, and The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway. The first of these albums featured guitarist Anthony ("Ant") Phillips, while the rest feature Steve Hackett. This box set contains many of my favorite Genesis tunes, and I am exceedingly happy with this set.

All of these albums have been painstakingly remastered and remixed, including 5.1 surround sound. There are also extras of TV appearances and concert film work showing them at their finest, along with very interesting, and telling, commentary from all of the principle players.

All in all this is a very good sounding set thanks to Nick Davis and I appreciate the effort he put into these recordings. If you like the Gabriel years, you'll love this set. 5 stars. Highly recommended.

I have to agree with the negative reviews here: the subpar sound quality ruins what should be the definitive retrospective of one of the definitive prog bands. The music here has become yet another victim of the loudness war, a trend in which modern records are mastered at increasingly loud volumes in a mistaken belief that doing this raises record sales. Unfortunately, since the peak of loudness that was attainable in a digital recording without sacrificing audio quality was already reached long ago, the only way to raise the loudness further is to break out the dynamic range compression, which has been raised to ridiculous levels in recent years. This trend now sucks much of the dynamic range out of the recording, which, as any Genesis fan worth their salt knows, is a large part of what made their music so appealing in the first place. It's like playing Beethoven's Fifth Symphony with every note at equal volume: it misses the point of the original music. The loudness war frequently results in audible "pumping", where the artefacts of compression result in unnatural-sounding, rapid volume changes, or digital clipping, a phenomenon in which the troughs and peaks of waveforms are flattened and the sound comes out sounding muffled and distorted. It also frequently results in listener fatigue - the music a listener loves actually becomes tiresome to listen to.

I'll admit that this isn't the least dynamic recording to be released on a major label in recent years (it's not a Death Magnetic-level disaster, at least), but it's a major step down from any of the previously available sets, even the heavily EQ'd Atlantic "Definitive Edition Remasters" from 1994. The albums also often seem to have been remixed, which may be regarded by some listeners as an improvement since they reveal new details that were buried in previous mixes, but it may also be a huge distraction. Personally, I had no problem with the production on even the band's early albums, and trying to make them sound more like the drum sound of "In the Air Tonight" and "Mama", which seems to have been what the engineers here intended, does not strike me as an improvement - that sound worked wonderfully for those songs (which, unlike some Gabriel-era fanatics, I quite like), but it is not what was intended for this music, and remixing them this way is roughly comparable to hiring Ernest Hemingway to rewrite Shakespeare: Hemingway's writing may be wonderful for what it is, but Shakespeare's original works stand on their own and there is no need to rewrite them in a more "modern" style.

I'm giving this collection two stars (edit: see below) because the packaging is nicely assembled, and the bonus material and 5.1 mixes will be of interest to hardcore fans (though the best of the bonus material already appeared on the Archive 1967-75 set). I also can't give any collection that contains Trespass, Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, Selling England by the Pound, and The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (arguably the finest five-album streak ever managed by any progressive rock band) one star. However, don't have any delusions: of the many ways available to hear this material, the CDs on this box set (as well as the concurrent standalone CD reissues) are the worst of them. My first recommendation is to track down original Charisma vinyl pressings (or good rips thereof), followed by the original Virgin/Charisma CDs. And even the heavily EQ'd "Definitive Edition Remasters" are vastly preferable to the versions available here.

In short, there is little point to this compilation apart from the 5.1 mixes (which will not be accessible to many listeners, myself included) and the bonus material (which is not momentous enough to justify purchasing six additional poorly mastered CDs). Most listeners who are interested in this collection will already have better-sounding versions of most of it, and those who do not are advised to track down those versions first and pick this set up only if they truly need to have everything.

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Edit, 2022: I still don't have equipment on which to play the 5.1 mixes, but I've mixed them down to stereo. For that reason and that reason alone, I'm bumping this up from two to three stars - the mixdowns are substantially better than the CDs and, in all cases, at least on par with the LPs. The drums and vocals have a small amount of dynamic range compression, but it's hardly noticeable by modern standards; the other instruments don't sound like they have any compression at all. The mixdowns of Trespass and Nursery Cryme are by far the best-sounding versions I've ever heard - the mix is almost Steven Wilson-calibre in terms of how much sonic detail it reveals. Foxtrot, Selling England, and The Lamb didn't improve as much because they already sounded good, but the mixdowns are perfectly serviceable, and these days I probably find myself listening to them as often as I listen to pbthal's vinyl rips.

I will reiterate that the CDs are not really "remasters" - they're in fact full remixes that often change the instrument balance, apply new filters and EQ to the instruments, add entirely new parts, occasionally subtract some, may occasionally use different takes. For that reason, they're interesting alternate takes on the music, but the packaging should make this clear, and the fact that these have entirely supplanted the original mixes from circulation is an act of historical revisionism comparable to the Star Wars Special Editions. Owing to the comparatively poor dynamic range, these remain my least favourite CD issues of Foxtrot, Selling England, and The Lamb, and while the clarity of the mix has led me to warm up to the CDs of Trespass and Nursery Cryme, they're still a pale shadow of what they could've been with better dynamic range.

In summation, my ranking of releases is something like:

Trespass & Nursery Cryme: 5.1 mix > LP = 2007/2008 CD > 1985 CD > 1994 CD Foxtrot, Selling England, The Lamb: LP = 5.1 mix > 1985 CD > 1994 CD >>>>>>> 2007/2008 CD

If this collection consisted of only the 5.1 mixes (or of the 5.1 mixes and direct stereo mixdowns thereof without any form of dynamic range compression), I'd give it five stars without hesitation, but it does too much harm to Foxtrot, Selling England, and The Lamb in other media for me to give it more than three.

An audio/video encyclopedia of so-called 'Gabriel-era' Genesis, or, in other words, Genesis of its golden age, classic Genesis etc. First of all, being a diehard, hardbitten and clinically dedicated Genesis fan since my schooldays (honestly!.. I've listened to a few thousands of prog albums from 1960s to 2010s since then, but still nothing can compare to Duke, And Then There Were Three, Selling England By The Pound and A Trick Of The Tail!), I in toto refuse to talk about the sound quality of this CD/DVD box set. I think it's unessential when we discuss the music originally released in 1970s. The only sound to be accepted is old vinyl sound, and basta. Remixes? Remasterings? Oh it's pretty nice, but you have no need to seek for a good digital remastering of Supper's Ready if you own a clean copy of the US first vinyl press of Foxtrot on pink scroll Charisma in wallet gatefold cover. (Yes Foxtrot exists on pink scroll label, this US version is missing on Discogs but I had a mint copy - it sounded extraordinary, incomparably better than the muffled UK orig!) The only thing to be discussed are IMHO ten 'extra-tracks' on disc 6. All the five classic Genesis studio albums are available in hundreds of versions, while those 10 tracks are quite little-known and difficult to find, some of them were first released on 1990s and 2000s compilations, mostly unofficial.

Another nota bene is that in fact there was no 'Gabriel era' in the band's history. I.e. of course there was a period when Peter Gabriel was a member of the band (who will dispute this?), but musically Genesis was never 'Gabriel-dominated'. Until Duke, the band was musically 'Banks-dominated'. The myth about Gabriel as 'main songwriter' conquered the prog world, and when Tony Banks mentioned in a 1990s TV interview that he played major role in the band in 1970s, nobody paid attention, all the more that authorship of the music was not detailed on the band's early albums. But when Gabriel left the band and started a solo career, the things cleared. Even in his earliest solo albums you can hear absolutely no hint of Genesis of his era. Yes he was the band's main lyricist, but as for the music, just listen to A Curious Feeling (Banks' 1979 solo), and you'll clearly hear massive echoes as of mid and late 1970s Genesis so of Selling England By The Pound and even Nursery Cryme.

But let's keep to the point. What about the ten 'extra' songs?

Happy The Man is a non-album track first released in 1972 on 7-inch single. A classic song, though it rather belongs to ballad-type compositions not typical for Genesis of that period. By the way, its title gave a name to one of the greatest US prog bands of late 1970s.

Twilight Alehouse is another non-album track, first released on 7-inch in 1973. A masterpiece. Was written and recorded in the same time as most of the tracks for Selling England By The Pound but didn't fit in the album.

Going Out To Get You is a studio demo from August 1969. Remained unreleased until 1990s. Somewhat raw. Almost 5-minute long but perhaps would better be 3-minute. Sounds as a rejected track from the band's debut album From Genesis To Revelation. (Just to make the things clear: I like the album itself very much!)

Shepherd, Pacidy and Let Us Now Make Love are taken from the 1970 BBC Night Ride and were never released either on albums or on singles but often performed by the band live in 1970-1972. Musically all the three are transitional fossils between From Genesis To Revelation and Trespass.

Provocation, Frustration, Manipulation and Resignation are in fact sketches. All were recorded in London for BBC TV on 9th January 1970 and remained unavailable on the band's official releases until 2007. Most of the themes were later reworked and used in Trespass (Provocation, partially Resignation), Nursery Cryme (Manipulation and a short fragment of Provocation) and The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway (Frustration). All the four sound quite raw but charming.

Anyway, no matter if the musical material is raw or mature, the sound quality good or poor, production strong or weak etc, all the ten are of great interest as 'unknown (or at least not too well-known) Genesis', and I'd say the disc 6 is a pearl of the box set.